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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8557427" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>And, as we discussed, you still moved the triggers for leveling, you just removed the player facing information system (XP) when you did so.&nbsp; So, in talking about removing XP you're doing really only one thing, removing information from the player's side of the game.&nbsp; Again, as we discussed in that other thread, this can be absolutely for the good, but, as with any change, it should be considered.&nbsp; Then you have the changing the incentives.&nbsp; What you described doing removed the immediate feedback information channel from the players (THIS action gets THIS reward incentive loop) and then changed to &quot;I, the GM, think they've done enough&quot; as the incentive structure.&nbsp; That incentive structure moves the players' incentives from specific actions in game (kill monsters, get XP) to a more general &quot;follow what the GM wants.&quot;&nbsp; Again, as I said before, this can absolutely lead to good outcomes if it's something the table enjoys.&nbsp; And I've absolutely run, fairly recently, 5e in exactly this style -- I don't hand out XP, but I tell you when you've leveled, and that's when you've crossed the selected story thresholds (I ran SKT like this).</p></blockquote><p></p>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8557427, member: 16814"] And, as we discussed, you still moved the triggers for leveling, you just removed the player facing information system (XP) when you did so. So, in talking about removing XP you're doing really only one thing, removing information from the player's side of the game. Again, as we discussed in that other thread, this can be absolutely for the good, but, as with any change, it should be considered. Then you have the changing the incentives. What you described doing removed the immediate feedback information channel from the players (THIS action gets THIS reward incentive loop) and then changed to "I, the GM, think they've done enough" as the incentive structure. That incentive structure moves the players' incentives from specific actions in game (kill monsters, get XP) to a more general "follow what the GM wants." Again, as I said before, this can absolutely lead to good outcomes if it's something the table enjoys. And I've absolutely run, fairly recently, 5e in exactly this style -- I don't hand out XP, but I tell you when you've leveled, and that's when you've crossed the selected story thresholds (I ran SKT like this). [/QUOTE]

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