NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7944478" data-attributes="member: 6750235">Sounds like the opening for a joke."A bard, a paladin, and a wizard walk into a tavern....."The punchline being that there were two other characters in the party but no one noticed them.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Evasion, uncanny dodge, sneak attack, and reliable talent beg to differ.  Both gain skill abilities but rogues gain them faster and by the time lore bards have peerless skill (which runs on a limited resource) all rogues have reliable talent.  Eliminating low rolls lets rogues succeed at checks more often than a limited use bonus.Rogues have innate defensive abilities that tank damage better and are better at skills.  Bards do a lot but they still don't do it as well as more focused classes.Compare that to a vengeance paladin who also casts hunter's mark or haste plus has a fighting style, improved divine smite, more smite options, vow of enmity, and a bonus to make concentration saves the bard doesn't have.Both are also putting ASI's into an attack stat instead of CHA, or are going for CHA and losing accuracy and damage on the attacks.  MAD hits them in ways that don't hit fighters, barbarians, and rogues that people tend to forget.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  A person can build a STR based PAM or GWM valor bard but they are losing out in other areas in the process.  Going that route gets damage faster than waiting for 10th level on a spell for the archer.  Going ranged would be better off CE for the bonus action attack in the meantime, making haste better than swift quiver by that level.A battlemaster unloading expertise dice on an action surge nova's nicely.  Same armor, same hit die, both have self healing and saving throw benefits under different mechanics, bonus feats/ASI's are nice.  I prefer the fighter but my adventuring days don't consist of "fight's over let's rest".  Or the EK is rather similar but MOAR attacks vs MOAR spells.I don't think the argument of a "weak" fighter is true.  Possibly over-specialized but fighters don't struggle with being able to fight well.Sure is because he delays access to higher level abilities and gives up both a 7th level spell slot and an ASI for the ability to waste spell slots on damage that would have been more effective cast on spells.  Like the higher level spells he just delayed and permanently giving up a force cage, for example."Look at me!!!  I delayed casting hypnotic pattern so I can blow those slots on single target d8's instead."  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />Claiming a bard is powerful because of the paladin smite ability seems a bit misplaced, no?  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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