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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7944942" data-attributes="member: 6750235">The bard doesn't have more attacks.  It doesn't take a TWF style to use TWF.  The number of smites argument is based on the 5MWD model that in the long run isn't that many more smites, cap out at the same damage in a smite, and are still better served on spell effects instead of smites.There's more to the game than 8th level.  I like to think people plan out their characters.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />It's an ability the bard will not be picking up in the bard/pally splash vs pally comparison.Not a much deep well.  It's 4 smites at the level and 6 smites at 20th level.  The relative gap doesn't increase much over time; it decreases.  What you're missing is the effects of the spells instead of smiting.Doing 229 damage took a lot more than one spell slot.  Why are you clinging to fireball and ignoring the other spells mentioned, or clinging to that single target damage like it's the only valid damage?  You also wouldn't do 229 damage in that time because accuracy needs to kick in.  The pally / bard split is down an ASI in comparison as well so the 20 DEX was being generous.  It was just a rough number.Fireball is used as apples to apples because it's a caster bard option.  Damage for damage.  The straight bard has an additional 4th level slot so 3 rounds is (9d6)*2+8d6 for ~91 damage per target.  That's 2 4th level slots and a 3rd level slot on fireball.  It only takes 3 targets to leave total damage in the dust at a third of the resource cost.  That's before adding in any bonus action attacks the bard might have also picked up.Single target can skip completely by using polymorph the first round and sleep the second and incap the opponent because of the new current hp total.  Your build can't do that at the level you want to argue and wouldn't based on the premise of smite damage Spells like dissonant whispers and compulsion let the party make use of opportunity attacks to stack on additional smites, or sneak attacks, or play with war caster for booming blade fun.  It's not what the bard does as in individual in that case but how the bard enhances the party.  Hypnotic pattern incapacitates large numbers of creatures to manage incoming damage while the party ganks selected targets individually.  DPR as a metric ignores incoming versus outgoing ratio.No, that was part of comments that paladins have less attacks somehow and was adding on that a paladin can MC just like a bard can.  Adding action surge lets the paladin build out nova your bard build.  Using a multiclass benefit applies to other builds too.  A person cannot look at one splash and ignore other splash options in comparison.Another comment I made is that the damage you are attributing to bards is coming from the paladin's smite ability and the generic MC caster progression table.  That's not a bard ability.The overall theme I'm going for is throwing away those slots that fast for quick damage not as useful as enhancing the party.  Those bardic inspiration dice you are burning through for AC allow other characters to not whiff big attacks or keep them in the battle by not failing a saving throw.As for the other side of the coin, the build gives up aura of protection, channel divinity, and paladin oath abilities.  The boost to the paladin's saves are also important, vow of enmity increases the chance to land those smites fast, and giving up a single off hand attack and 1st level smite for hunter's mark adds up on a single high hp target.The big advantage going bard instead of paladin isn't as big as you think because it's also giving up higher level paladin abilities compared to a straight paladin or giving up higher level bard abilities when looking at a straight bard.  There's more involved than just looking at the number of and level of spell slots.</blockquote>

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