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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7946230" data-attributes="member: 6750235">That's not a different subject, lol.  We're comparing options, some options don't become invalid.I'm talking experience playing bards and paladins, and DM'ing many builds.  I didn't notice you were DM'ing as opposed to playing the class but that doesn't change you stated the paladin was using higher level spells because of a lack of cleric being the paladin's advantage.Calling basic character options "theorycrafting" certainly doesn't dispute the "theory".  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />What you are presenting is anecdotal without support for it's validity or additional context.They do rule in targeted damage.  The large numbers of dice in both cases falls short of the abilities lost to focus on that damage.  Throwing away slots that fast as a priority comes with an opportunity cost and it's a strategy that only works well in a 5MWD scenario.And that contradicts your earlier comment regarding the what the paladin was doing with higher level paladin spells, ignores the abilities I mentioned for paladins that can be taken, and doesn't acknowledge any level other than 8th level.It's not like the P2/B6 had extra attack and smite ability at the same time prior to 8th level.  A straight paladin has extra attack 3 levels earlier and as I mentioned multiple times can easily pick up a bonus action attack.  PAM cheese for example.Well, to be fair you aren't enlightening me much either.  I do know what fighting demons is like.  Many have good saves and magic resistance and immunities.  The don't have immunity to force damage from agonizing blast.  Changing to attack roll spells bypasses spell resistance save benefits.  The fast that he's front line doesn't mean any comparison needs to be front line or it doesn't count.  It's arguing "the best class" but refusing to allow for builds with a distinct advantage over one concept of "the best class".A person cannot argue "this is the best/better build" by refusing to acknowledge other options available. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />How is the party dealing with confusion, darkness, dispel magic, and other possibilities with glabrezu?It's because if the character hits twice the character can smite up to 2 times.  If the character hits thrice the character can smite up to 3 times.  If a person wants to nova by smiting then accuracy can make a big difference as to how many smites land.  It's not that the smite gets lost so much as how fast they can be applied.Paladins going smite nova can be hampered pretty fast by range or disadvantage.</blockquote>

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