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Message: <blockquote data-quote="paradak" data-source="post: 2279633" data-attributes="member: 32574">My comments on your EK PrC (Eldritch Knight Prestige class): First off, it seems way better than the original 3.5 Edition one. a) Arcane spell Failure reduction:Kinda redundant with the spellsword, I think. Nore that the EK drawing doesn't display a character wearing armor. Anyway, if you really need it then I'd limit the ASF reduction only to armor, not shields, just like the spellsword.  50% ASF is too big.  The problem with the Tank Mage is that its bad for a party of adventurers because the fighter completely loses all appeal.  Wirh such combo classes we're very near the point of Unearthed Arcana's Gestalt classes (see the warnings in that book on the gestalt sidebar). b) Spellcasting levels vs Feats progression:Let's check this out:10 levels => 4 feats + 6 spellcasting levels. Let's use Fighter 4 / Sorcerer 6, the closest case. ===>>>  Ftr4/Sor5/EK10 has, when compared to Ftr9/Sor11:(I chose this because an EK character probably may want to specialize) BAB +16 instead of +14 (ergo, +1 attack)FRW Saves 12/5/8 instead of 10/7/10, which are worse saves(Refl is used the most often, then Will, then Fort)hp avg 71-74 instead of 78-81Slightly better skill distribution+2 Feats ===>>>  Ftr1/Sor5/EK10 has, when compared to Ftr5/Sor11:BAB +13 instead of +10 (ergo, +1 attack)FRW Saves 10/4/7 instead of 8/5/8, which are worse saves(Refl is used the most often, then Will, then Fort)hp avg 49-52 instead of 56-59Slightly better skill distribution+2 Feats Overall EK comparison vs non-EK (at same spellcasting) power: +3 BAB and one more attack+1 or +2 featsSlightly crappier overall saves and hpSlightly better skills distribution  Comparing with a pure Sorcerer is not an option. Everybody knows that while most classes progress "linearly", spellcasting progresses "exponentially" and thus the pure spellcasting class become overpowered at high levels. Also, it would make comparison difficult and useless. A level difference in spellcasting is huge at low levels, but is insignificant at epic levels (compare a Ftr 1 / Sor 24 with a Ftr 1 / Sor 14 / EK 10. The EK has everything except caster level 4 lower (big deal! this will be important only against Greater Dispels), otherwise he wins on all accounts by a wide margin, and has just as many spells.  In conclusion: at equal spellcasting level, EK yields is a tiny sacrifice for a really big gain. Yes, EK seems to solve the apparent "mixed class are too weak" problem. But that is only an illusion, so the PrC is not really needed. sure, Sor 10 / Clr 10 or Sor 10 / Ftr 10 seems much weaker than Clr 20 or Sor 20. But it is not weaker than Ftr 20. Thus, the problem is not that mixed classes are "too weak", it is that pure spellcasting classes are too strong (especially at higher levels). Hopefully, Edition 4.0 will try to tackle the "magic rules" problem, and make magic progress in a more linear fashion, just like the other class features of other non-pure-spellcasting classes, rather than exponentially like they do now. I created an EK PrC that is dsigned to be more of a "concept with unique powers" rather than a min/maxing tool. Enjoy and use/misuse/schred as you like...  ================Description: See DMG Edition 3.5 p.187   Prerequisites: Weapon proficiencies: Must be proficient with all martial weapons. Spells: Able to cast 3rd level arcane spells. Feats: Combat Casting.   Hit Points: d6 BAB: Fighter Good Save: Fortitude Skill Points: 2+ Int. Class Skills: Jump (Str), Swim (Str), Ride (Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Nobility), Spellcraft (Int), Sense Motive (Wis).   Level 1 +1 Spellcasting Level, Eldritch Weapon Level 2 Bonus Fighter Feat, Eldritch Spellcasting Level 3 +1 Spellcasting Level Level 4 Eldritch Force Level 5 +1 Spellcasting Level Level 6 Eldritch Combat Level 7 +1 Spellcasting Level Level 8 Eldritch Mastery Level 9 +1 Spellcasting Level Level 10 Eldritch Power   *** Eldritch Weapon: At 1st level, an Eldritch Knight can create a supernatural connection with a single specific permanent magical weapon. This process requires 24 hours. The Eldritch Knight can do other actions during this time, but he must constantly keep the weapon in hand or worn on himself in a readily accessible location. For example, a dagger in a belt-worn scabbard is okay, but not a dagger stored in a backpack. The Eldritch Knight can have only one Eldritch Weapon at a time. To create a connection with another weapon, he must first dismiss his existing mystical connection. Dismissing a connection requires a standard action. An Eldritch Knight can cast touch spells through Eldritch Weapon melee attacks. This is resolved as a casting a spell standard action allowing an attack roll. An Eldritch Knight can elect to cast the touch spell as a touch attack or as a regular attack. When using a regular attack, if a hit is scored then the weapon’s damage is added to the touch spell’s effect, and if a critical hit is scored with the weapon then the touch spell’s effect is also a critical hit. In any case, when casting a touch spell through an Eldritch Weapon, holding the charge is not possible. If the attack misses, wether it is resolved as a touch attack or as a regular attack, the touch spell immediately dissipates harmlessly.   *** Eldritch Spellcasting: At 2nd level, an Eldritch Knight learns to mix martial and magical combat more efficiently. Once per day per Eldritch Knight level, he can cast a spell with somatic components by using his Eldritch Weapon rather than his hand. He still need to perform all the normal somatic movements, but he does so with his Eldritch Weapon rather than his hand. The spell shoots forth from the tip of the weapon rather than the hand.     *** Eldritch Force (Su): At 4th level, an Eldritch Knight develops a connection to the supernatural, allowing him to make an extremely powerful mystical attack filled with telekinetic energy. An Eldritch Knight can invoke this power once per day as a standard action, making an attack roll with his Eldritch Weapon. This attack can be resolved as either a touch attack or as a regular attack. Using a regular attack allows the weapon’s normal damage to be added to the effect. If the attack is a multiple attack, such as when using the Manyshot feat, only the main attack contains the telekinetic force. If the attack hits, the target takes 1d6 bludgeoning damage per Edlritch Knight class level. Additionnally, if the target weights less than 50 pounds times the Eldritch Knight’s class levels, it is violently thrust backwards up to 10 feet per Eldritch Knight class level, and falls prone. If the target is thrown into a solid obstacle such as a wall, it takes an additionnal 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage.   *** Eldritch Combat: At 6th level, an Eldritch Knight has learned how to mix together his magical and martial abilities, allowing him to cast spells and also attack! An Eldritch Knight using a Full Round Action can attack once with his Eldritch Weapon, and can also cast one arcane spell in the same round, either before or after the attack. However, due to the inherent difficulty in successfully pulling off such a manoeuver, the Eldritch Knight’s attack is at –4 to hit, and he has a –4 penalty to Concentration checks and a 20% additionnal chance of spell failure. This ability is usable at will.   *** Eldritch Mastery: At 8th level, an Eldritch Knight’s magical and martial attacks now have a mystical connection. Whenever an Eldritch Knight damages a foe by using his Eldritch Weapon, he gains a +1 eldritch bonus to the save DC of spells cast against that foe. Whenever a foe misses a save against an Eldritch Knight’s spell, he gains a +1 eldritch bonus to hit against that foe. These bonuses last until the end of the Eldritch Knight’s next round’s worth of actions. Eldritch bonuses do not stack.   *** Eldritch Power (Su): At 10th level, an Eldritch Knight's mystical connection to the supernatural reaches its maximum. An Eldritch Knight can invoke pure Eldritch Power once per day as move action. The power lasts for 1 minute. First, at the moment the power is invoked, the Eldritch Knight can elect to use up a single spell slot (fresh or prepared). If he does so, while the power last all his attacks with his Eldritch Weapon gain an enhancement bonus to damage equal to the level of the spell slot used. Note that his Eldritch Weapon does not gain an enhancement bonus to hit. Second, while the Eldritch Power is active, undiluted Eldritch Power flows all around the Eldritch Knight, providing an ectoplasm-looking illumination equivalent to a light spell. If the Eldritch Knight’s eyes are sensitive to light, he suffer no penalty from this mystical light. Third, any attack that the Eldritch Knight makes with his Eldritch Weapon is resolved as a force effect, and his armor (but not his shield) also gains the force attribute, just as if the Eldritch Knight had the Ghost Touch special quality with his Eldritch Weapon and with his armor. Fourth, the Eldritch Knight’s natural armor bonuses become supernatural armor bonuses. (Supernatural armor bonuses are a house rule in my campaign that mainly boosts how dangerous dragons and demons are. A supernatural armor bonus is defined as a type of natural armor bonus that stays fully effective against touch attacks. Supernatural armor bonuses and natural armor bonuses do not stack.) Fifth, the Eldritch Knight is protected by supernatural magic equivalent in effect to a Mage Armor spell, a Shield spell, and a See Invisible spell. Sixth, the Eldritch Knight can become Ethereal (or return from the Ethereal to the material) at will as a move action. Afterwards, the Eldritch Knight is fatigued for 10 minutes.   Description: See DMG Edition 3.5 p.187   Prerequisites: Weapon proficiencies: Must be proficient with all martial weapons. Spells: Able to cast 3rd level arcane spells. Feats: Combat Casting.   Hit Points: d6 BAB: Fighter Good Save: Fortitude Skill Points: 2+ Int. Class Skills: Jump (Str), Swim (Str), Ride (Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Nobility), Spellcraft (Int), Sense Motive (Wis).   Level 1 +1 Spellcasting Level, Eldritch Weapon Level 2 Bonus Fighter Feat, Eldritch Spellcasting Level 3 +1 Spellcasting Level Level 4 Eldritch Force Level 5 +1 Spellcasting Level Level 6 Eldritch Combat Level 7 +1 Spellcasting Level Level 8 Eldritch Mastery Level 9 +1 Spellcasting Level Level 10 Eldritch Power   *** Eldritch Weapon: At 1st level, an Eldritch Knight can create a supernatural connection with a single specific permanent magical weapon. This process requires 24 hours. The Eldritch Knight can do other actions during this time, but he must constantly keep the weapon in hand or worn on himself in a readily accessible location. For example, a dagger in a belt-worn scabbard is okay, but not a dagger stored in a backpack. The Eldritch Knight can have only one Eldritch Weapon at a time. To create a connection with another weapon, he must first dismiss his existing mystical connection. Dismissing a connection requires a standard action. An Eldritch Knight can cast touch spells through Eldritch Weapon melee attacks. This is resolved as a casting a spell standard action allowing an attack roll. An Eldritch Knight can elect to cast the touch spell as a touch attack or as a regular attack. When using a regular attack, if a hit is scored then the weapon’s damage is added to the touch spell’s effect, and if a critical hit is scored with the weapon then the touch spell’s effect is also a critical hit. In any case, when casting a touch spell through an Eldritch Weapon, holding the charge is not possible. If the attack misses, wether it is resolved as a touch attack or as a regular attack, the touch spell immediately dissipates harmlessly.   *** Eldritch Spellcasting: At 2nd level, an Eldritch Knight learns to mix martial and magical combat more efficiently. Once per day per Eldritch Knight level, he can cast a spell with somatic components by using his Eldritch Weapon rather than his hand. He still need to perform all the normal somatic movements, but he does so with his Eldritch Weapon rather than his hand. The spell shoots forth from the tip of the weapon rather than the hand.     *** Eldritch Force (Su): At 4th level, an Eldritch Knight develops a connection to the supernatural, allowing him to make an extremely powerful mystical attack filled with telekinetic energy. An Eldritch Knight can invoke this power once per day as a standard action, making an attack roll with his Eldritch Weapon. This attack can be resolved as either a touch attack or as a regular attack. Using a regular attack allows the weapon’s normal damage to be added to the effect. If the attack is a multiple attack, such as when using the Manyshot feat, only the main attack contains the telekinetic force. If the attack hits, the target takes 1d6 bludgeoning damage per Edlritch Knight class level. Additionnally, if the target weights less than 50 pounds times the Eldritch Knight’s class levels, it is violently thrust backwards up to 10 feet per Eldritch Knight class level, and falls prone. If the target is thrown into a solid obstacle such as a wall, it takes an additionnal 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage.   *** Eldritch Combat: At 6th level, an Eldritch Knight has learned how to mix together his magical and martial abilities, allowing him to cast spells and also attack! An Eldritch Knight using a Full Round Action can attack once with his Eldritch Weapon, and can also cast one arcane spell in the same round, either before or after the attack. However, due to the inherent difficulty in successfully pulling off such a manoeuver, the Eldritch Knight’s attack is at –4 to hit, and he has a –4 penalty to Concentration checks and a 20% additionnal chance of spell failure. This ability is usable at will.   *** Eldritch Mastery: At 8th level, an Eldritch Knight’s magical and martial attacks now have a mystical connection. Whenever an Eldritch Knight damages a foe by using his Eldritch Weapon, he gains a +1 eldritch bonus to the save DC of spells cast against that foe. Whenever a foe misses a save against an Eldritch Knight’s spell, he gains a +1 eldritch bonus to hit against that foe. These bonuses last until the end of the Eldritch Knight’s next round’s worth of actions. Eldritch bonuses do not stack.   *** Eldritch Power (Su): At 10th level, an Eldritch Knight's mystical connection to the supernatural reaches its maximum. An Eldritch Knight can invoke pure Eldritch Power once per day as move action. The power lasts for 1 minute. First, at the moment the power is invoked, the Eldritch Knight can elect to use up a single spell slot (fresh or prepared). If he does so, while the power last all his attacks with his Eldritch Weapon gain an enhancement bonus to damage equal to the level of the spell slot used. Note that his Eldritch Weapon does not gain an enhancement bonus to hit. Second, while the Eldritch Power is active, undiluted Eldritch Power flows all around the Eldritch Knight, providing an ectoplasm-looking illumination equivalent to a light spell. If the Eldritch Knight’s eyes are sensitive to light, he suffer no penalty from this mystical light. Third, any attack that the Eldritch Knight makes with his Eldritch Weapon is resolved as a force effect, and his armor (but not his shield) also gains the force attribute, just as if the Eldritch Knight had the Ghost Touch special quality with his Eldritch Weapon and with his armor. Fourth, the Eldritch Knight’s natural armor bonuses become supernatural armor bonuses. (Supernatural armor bonuses are a house rule in my campaign that mainly boosts how dangerous dragons and demons are. A supernatural armor bonus is defined as a type of natural armor bonus that stays fully effective against touch attacks. Supernatural armor bonuses and natural armor bonuses do not stack.) Fifth, the Eldritch Knight is protected by supernatural magic equivalent in effect to a Mage Armor spell, a Shield spell, and a See Invisible spell. Sixth, the Eldritch Knight can become Ethereal (or return from the Ethereal to the material) at will as a move action. Afterwards, the Eldritch Knight is fatigued for 10 minutes. ===================  NOTES: Adding the feat prerequisite seemed logical, given that the class otherwise has such a low prerequisites level. Moving the bonus fighter feat to level 2 helped make the class more "spread out" (you have to take a martial class level as a prerequisite, so this way you don't get to skip gaining sells 2 leves in a row) The touch spells through melee weapon thing goes hand in hand with a fighter mage. The tradeoff of not being able to hold the charge will prevent overuse / misuse. Essentually, the idea os that a fighter mage really has his hands full, what with needing to hold a weapon in one hand plus probably some magical thingie in ihs other hand, so the class is oriented to make such a fighter mage approach less of a hassle. The cast a spell through weapon thing goes along the same line of thought. The cast + attack thing inherently is a tradeoff not only because of the steep penalties, but because at higher levels, the character sacrifices the capability to make a full attack of 3 or 4 attacks or maybe even more. The telekinetic attack thing is really cool (especially on top of a bridge over a chasm...), but is usable only 1 / day. This is less good than gaining spellcasting, sure. But remember the Fighter BAB and slightly better hp! By definition, the class CAN'T allow the PC to have his cake and eat it too. The mastery thing actually encourages the EK to be played intelligently. The +1 to hit and +1 DC is like having two "half feats", and thus is a powerful ability, but requires the player to play his PC intelligently, and to really BE an eldritch knight, that is: using both magic and martial attacks in combat. This is still not as good as gaining sells, but is quite close, and IMHO is the ability that makes the EK the most interesting and challenging to play. The last power is a "uber last level reward" (I don't use Epic PrC levels in my campaign) that actually is of limited use in many situations, but extremely useful in others. This is the ability that could most easily be modified.  Ciao! </blockquote>

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