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<blockquote data-quote="Seule" data-source="post: 1391566" data-attributes="member: 407">I'd have some moderately powerful undead guardians that the cleric can simply dismiss.&nbsp; Firstly it uses up actions where he's not doing other things, and secondly it lets him use his class powers, and it's always important to let the players do what they do best... and even make it necessary for survival.&nbsp; Paragon undead would be a nasty trick to pull, but as they wouldn't have many hit dice, they could be turned pretty easily while still being very powerful, and satisfying for the players.The half-water-elemental template added to something very unfortunate, like a dragon (any type) could be particularly icky for them.&nbsp; People don't use aquatic dragons enough, in my opinion.&nbsp; They get the advantages of flying (swimming) without the drawbacks of poor maneuverability.If you look at the Book of Exalted deeds they give guidelines for redeemed demons and devils, you could do the same in reverse to a Solar or two to really give the cleric fits.&nbsp; Make sure they are advanced too, though, so the PCs can't exactly predict their stats.I don't know if Celestials could be neither good nor evil, I see them as creatures of power, and they can't waffle back and forth, they are build so that they have to take a stand one way or the other.&nbsp; They know the stakes as it were, and have to take a side.&nbsp; I would, however, modify a Celestial rather than changing it entirely unless it had had its new alignment for a very long time.&nbsp; Creepier that way.Your idea of Judges or Arbiters sounds a lot like Inevitables (MM and FF), many of which are very cool, particularly the Fiend Folio ones...&nbsp; they protect the gods and time itself, and are a wonderful challenge for a high level perty.&nbsp; Plus, I'm sure your players are monkeying with time (Time Stop), as well as godhood.&nbsp; Perhaps some of the god-protector Inevitables (I don't remember the name) come down for the PCs, and some come down against?&nbsp; That would be interesting.&nbsp; After all, they are trying to prevent a new god from being created, and that could be seen as attacking the gods, or as preserving the current order.Hope something here spurs your imagination.&nbsp;&nbsp; --Seule</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Seule, post: 1391566, member: 407"] I'd have some moderately powerful undead guardians that the cleric can simply dismiss. Firstly it uses up actions where he's not doing other things, and secondly it lets him use his class powers, and it's always important to let the players do what they do best... and even make it necessary for survival. Paragon undead would be a nasty trick to pull, but as they wouldn't have many hit dice, they could be turned pretty easily while still being very powerful, and satisfying for the players. The half-water-elemental template added to something very unfortunate, like a dragon (any type) could be particularly icky for them. People don't use aquatic dragons enough, in my opinion. They get the advantages of flying (swimming) without the drawbacks of poor maneuverability. If you look at the Book of Exalted deeds they give guidelines for redeemed demons and devils, you could do the same in reverse to a Solar or two to really give the cleric fits. Make sure they are advanced too, though, so the PCs can't exactly predict their stats. I don't know if Celestials could be neither good nor evil, I see them as creatures of power, and they can't waffle back and forth, they are build so that they have to take a stand one way or the other. They know the stakes as it were, and have to take a side. I would, however, modify a Celestial rather than changing it entirely unless it had had its new alignment for a very long time. Creepier that way. Your idea of Judges or Arbiters sounds a lot like Inevitables (MM and FF), many of which are very cool, particularly the Fiend Folio ones... they protect the gods and time itself, and are a wonderful challenge for a high level perty. Plus, I'm sure your players are monkeying with time (Time Stop), as well as godhood. Perhaps some of the god-protector Inevitables (I don't remember the name) come down for the PCs, and some come down against? That would be interesting. After all, they are trying to prevent a new god from being created, and that could be seen as attacking the gods, or as preserving the current order. Hope something here spurs your imagination. --Seule [/QUOTE]

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