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<blockquote data-quote="Iosue" data-source="post: 5783880" data-attributes="member: 6680772">This is the part I'm having trouble understanding.&nbsp; I agree with everything you say if you make full use of the character generation rules.&nbsp; However, the part I've never understood is, if you don't want to take combat powers, why take them?&nbsp; There's no reason why you have to choose any at-wills, encounters or dailies.&nbsp; Just ignore them.&nbsp; Put your points in Int, Wis, and Cha, and bottom out your Str, Dex, and Con.&nbsp; You have a character very much like a 2e character.&nbsp; Use the lower of your two ability bonuses for your defenses.&nbsp; Heck, you don't even need a &quot;4th Edition chaaracter sheet&quot; -- just jot it down on some notebook paper like we did in the day (or use Word, if that's your thing).Now, the difference in skills is a big one.&nbsp; And I can understand if someone prefers the detailed skills of 3e over the reduced list in 4e.&nbsp; One could certainly easily import that 3e skill system into 4e, but I could also understand not wanting to go through the trouble.&nbsp; That all makes sense to me.&nbsp; What I've never understood is why people say, &quot;4e makes me make a combat-capable character&quot;, and no one ever thinks to just ignore the combat bells and whistles.&nbsp; And even more odd to me is that 4e proponents respond to this with such builds as &quot;the lazy warlord&quot;, and no one just says -- don't choose any powers.&nbsp; Done and done.I trust Number48's feel for whether he likes the game.&nbsp; I'm sure even doing the above 4e still wouldn't change his feelings about it, and that's cool.&nbsp; Hell, if the only way to make 4e to work for you is to gut the combat bells and whistles and import the 3e skill system, you might as well just play 3e.&nbsp; Let me be clear that none of this is directed personally at him, or you, Mark Chevallier; I have no desire to try to persuade you folks or prove your&nbsp; arguments false.&nbsp; I'm just scratching my head that when the issue of &quot;forced combat capability&quot; comes up, no one on either side just says, &quot;Don't choose any powers.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Iosue, post: 5783880, member: 6680772"] This is the part I'm having trouble understanding. I agree with everything you say if you make full use of the character generation rules. However, the part I've never understood is, if you don't want to take combat powers, why take them? There's no reason why you [i]have[/i] to choose any at-wills, encounters or dailies. Just ignore them. Put your points in Int, Wis, and Cha, and bottom out your Str, Dex, and Con. You have a character very much like a 2e character. Use the lower of your two ability bonuses for your defenses. Heck, you don't even need a "4th Edition chaaracter sheet" -- just jot it down on some notebook paper like we did in the day (or use Word, if that's your thing). Now, the difference in skills is a big one. And I can understand if someone prefers the detailed skills of 3e over the reduced list in 4e. One could certainly easily import that 3e skill system into 4e, but I could also understand not wanting to go through the trouble. That all makes sense to me. What I've never understood is why people say, "4e makes me make a combat-capable character", and no one ever thinks to just ignore the combat bells and whistles. And even more odd to me is that 4e proponents respond to this with such builds as "the lazy warlord", and no one just says -- don't choose any powers. Done and done. I trust Number48's feel for whether he likes the game. I'm sure even doing the above 4e still wouldn't change his feelings about it, and that's cool. Hell, if the only way to make 4e to work for you is to gut the combat bells and whistles and import the 3e skill system, you might as well just play 3e. Let me be clear that none of this is directed personally at him, or you, Mark Chevallier; I have no desire to try to persuade you folks or prove your arguments false. I'm just scratching my head that when the issue of "forced combat capability" comes up, no one on either side just says, "Don't choose any powers." [/QUOTE]

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