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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 9642138" data-attributes="member: 6785785">RPGs have qualities like other games. They have qualities that are different than other games, too. But the presence of one doesn't negate the other. RPGs have players. Players can have agency. How do players of RPGs exercise agency? What do players of RPGs do? What is it they want in play (not "fun", but what is the goal of play)? How do they pursue those goals? I think that being able to control one's own character is a pretty minimal example of agency. I don't think anyone's saying that it's not. However, it's not one where the player has much agency. Your example isn't complete enough to draw the conclusion you draw. When my group talks about the game, we do so about the events of play. It's just as likely to be about what we do as players as what happens in the game world. So and so then cast that spell that really saved us, or wow the dice did not go our way in that scene.Yes, and I think the OP mentioned that there are different levels of agency in RPGs when mentioning having played in "No or low agency games". Without knowing the details, it's hard to comment on this. But as described it sounds like your group was unable to come up with a satisfactory reason that your character would be out of the scene? I think this is from your view, which I believe is flawed, that control over one's character is the end-all-be-all of agency.</blockquote>