Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 9662121" data-attributes="member: 6795602">I think there's an underlying axiom that isn't anywhere near universally agreed upon that underlies your opinion.For a game like bridge I think your differentiation of authority and agency works well.  For some RPG's that follow closer to the bridge model I think it also works.  By follows closer to the bridge model I mean they have complete predefined rules and processes for play, essentially no judgement is required.  RPG's like that can have the bridge type of authority and agency distinction that you mention here.But what about RPG's that don't have complete predefined rules and processes for play?  I agree these games don't have the bridge like control over outcome you claim is needed for bridge like agency.  The players in these games cannot force things like in bridge based simply on the game rules and procedures alone, because some of the rules and procedures call for a large amount individual judgement layered on top of them.  And yet, while the individual judgements are never written and the procedures used to make those judgement are never set in concrete, players do intuitively learn to leverage such judgmental systems to help achieve their goals.  Now the results are not guaranteed like in bridge, but they are there and tangible and there's a world of difference in how well a 'good player' will achieve their goals and how well a 'bad player' will in such games. The underlying axiom for your position seems to be that if something doesn't have that bridge like authority and control/agency split then it either doesn't have agency or has less of it, but that doesn't necessarily follow.  There can be non-bridge types of agency and indeed are.I also think it's worth noting that control over outcome isn't really agency, but more an effect of having agency.  Yet one can only have as much control over outcome as a game actually allows.  Also worth noting is that having less control over outcome isn't synonymous with having less agency.</blockquote>

Verification