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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8998251" data-attributes="member: 71699">That reveals a few interesting differences in modes. One motive I have for positing what I do is a conversation I had with another poster ([USER=97077]@iserith[/USER] IIRC) relating to game text they had created outlining possible consequences of D&D ability checks. One example was of aggressive, noisy birds as a consequence for failing a climb check.How do we know in a principled way what consequences are possible? At the time, my concern was that some of the suggested twists might not be well legitimated against the fiction of situation + what player described. As I understood the climb situation, the stakes in view might well not include birds. The poster's text I subsequently accepted as demonstrating how meaningful consequences could be made broader than failing the actions of the character. Birds could very well be included in a situation and it can then be legitimated as a consequence.Additionally, In DMG 5e a roll is made only when there are meaningful consequences. As described in the supplemental text, the birds presented a meaningful consequence (noisy and perhaps dangerous.) Raining should be in view and meaningful for it to be legitimated, else it is window-dressing... the meaningful result in your example remains that the attempt to persuade fails. (Although I think there is also a social consequence at the table, of the dwarf not being characterised in a tropey way, which is a strength of the approach you advocated.) Following DMG 5e consequences resolution, performance need not be all that is at stake: failures in performance often only matter in DMG 5e in view of other consequences.Another difference is that D&D traditionally drives a forwards-going narrative. In D&D, it's normally less acceptable to retroactively add birds to a cliff just because a character fails their climb check. Those consequences need to be in view up front. That's not true of game modes that take a result and can apply it retroactively. These differences are about principles of legitimation.</blockquote>

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