D&D 3E/3.5 An experiment (3.5)

Alexander123

First Post
I have been thinking about something.

In the DMG a group of four creatures at CR 1 have a total CR of 4. While a group of 4 CR 2 creatures have a challenge rating of 6. Therefore the standard adventuring party consisting of a (human) fighter, cleric, rogue and wizard at level 1 would have a CR of 4 while one at level 2 would have a CR of 6.

So I thought that I would run a sort of experiment where I would create an adventuring party of the same level and have them face the standard adventuring party in an arena. The party consisted of a druid, cleric, wizard and artificer. I also wanted to see how many of these encounters the party would be able to take before another encounter would result in a TPK.

At level one the party was able to take 2 of these encounters a day before running out of resources. At level 2, the party was able to take 2 and probably had the capacity for 3 such encounters per day. The success of the party was due to winning initiative and battlefield control spells such as entangle and sleep. Afterwards, the druid and the cleric picked off the enemy team from afar using ranged weapons.

One of the things that I don't like about having my party face one creature is because of the economy of action which oftentimes gives a significant advantage to parties consisting of more characters. Hence I had each team consist of 4 members. I did not downplay the strengths of the opposing team to favor my own and I made reasonable choices as far as spell selection, feats etc. etc. are concerned. I played them to the best of their ability but they lost due to their inherent weaknesses. The enemy teams lack of the entangle spell proved key in my defeat of them as well as my use of the sleep spell (although this they had.) resulting in the disabling of their characters.

I think that the reason I was able to defeat them is because I was more optimized than the opposing party and because my strategy was better. In this sort of encounter, where the potential for a TPK exists for a party whose strategy is defective many things come to light about what good strategy can accomplish and what defective strategy can accomplish. In these sorts of encounters I also saw what a key role initiative plays. From my experience in this experiment, battles are won or lost within the first few rounds and the rest of the encounter is simply to clean things up.

I plan to continue this for the higher levels also.

Tell me what you think.
 
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Interesting approach. I cannot really tell I'm surprised about the importance of initiative, though. "Improved Initiative" seemed always like a good idea to me.
 
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I am not really surprised. At low lvs, rocket tag still exists to an extent since players have so few hp; not that uncommon to see a lucky hit fell a rogue or cleric at full hp.

Another player has also done a similar analysis here, though his assumes fairly optimized gameplay, so take his findings with a grain of salt.:)

Maybe the 2 of you can compare notes or something.

Challenging 3.5 and Pathfinder Parties in Practice
 

I have been thinking about something.

In the DMG a group of four creatures at CR 1 have a total CR of 4. While a group of 4 CR 2 creatures have a challenge rating of 6. Therefore the standard adventuring party consisting of a (human) fighter, cleric, rogue and wizard at level 1 would have a CR of 4 while one at level 2 would have a CR of 6.
I'd be careful about that. The challenge rating and xp tables only really have a regular progression after CR3 and when facing a level 4+ party.

CR1 and lower are oddities of the system and a level 1 party is also a special case.

I'd say four CR 1 creatures are really closer to a CR 3 encounter. What does the table say about an encounter with 8 CR1 creatures again? Is it 6 or is it lower?
 

One small note regarding Sleep: One thing people often miss with that spell is that it's a full-round casting, not a standard action. Like a Summoning, you begin the cast this round (no move action) and it takes place next round.

That's a lot of time for an opponent (or opponents) to see you casting and do something to disrupt it.
 



I remember an encounter where the party consisted of only two gestalted characters. One was a ranger/fighter, the other was a cleric/fighter. They faced off against a group of trolls lead by a troll hunter of difficult CR. They got a surprise round and ended the fight shortly after, taking no damage!

If your party is built right, initiative can make all the difference, unless the other party is built right to counter you. ;)
 

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