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An issue with the Tavern Brawler feat
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<blockquote data-quote="ccooke" data-source="post: 6499600" data-attributes="member: 6695890"><p>It goes like this.</p><p></p><p>By the basic improvised weapon rules, if an improvised weapon resembles an actual weapon you can treat it as an actual weapon. It is still, however, an improvised weapon.</p><p></p><p>Take this thought experiment involving a wizard with the Tavern Brawler feat (who therefore does <strong>not</strong> have proficiency with the Greatclub)</p><p></p><p>You pick up a broken wooden pillar and smash someone with it two handed. It's basically something a lot like a Greatclub, so the GM rules 1d8 damage, proficiency through Tavern Brawler. Easy.</p><p></p><p>So you take that pillar and you smooth off the splinters to make it less painful to hold, then you take it in two hands and you smash someone with it. Still looks a lot like a Greatclub, still gets you 1d8 damage and you still add proficiency because you have the Tavern Brawler feat.</p><p></p><p>Next you whittle a better handle. You heft it nicely with two hands and swing at someone with it, but the GM rules that it now doesn't just <strong>resemble</strong> a Greatclub, it <strong>is</strong> a Greatclub. Therefore you lose your proficiency bonus with it, because it is no longer an improvised weapon.</p><p></p><p>That would, to me, be a bad ruling. The problem is that I only see three ways this can go according to the rules as written:</p><p></p><p>1) Decide that any manufactured weapon can't be improvised, which means ignoring part of the basic improvised weapon rules.</p><p>2) Rule that improvisedness is a binary state that is somehow lost at some point, regardless of how much I find that silly (I'm sure there are people out there who are happy to rule this way, and that's fine. I'm just saying that it's a perfectly reasonable thing to <em>not</em> want to rule this way, too)</p><p>3) Do something to the way Tavern Brawler interacts with weapons which is effectively a houserule.</p><p></p><p>As you can see, I favour approach 3.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ccooke, post: 6499600, member: 6695890"] It goes like this. By the basic improvised weapon rules, if an improvised weapon resembles an actual weapon you can treat it as an actual weapon. It is still, however, an improvised weapon. Take this thought experiment involving a wizard with the Tavern Brawler feat (who therefore does [B]not[/B] have proficiency with the Greatclub) You pick up a broken wooden pillar and smash someone with it two handed. It's basically something a lot like a Greatclub, so the GM rules 1d8 damage, proficiency through Tavern Brawler. Easy. So you take that pillar and you smooth off the splinters to make it less painful to hold, then you take it in two hands and you smash someone with it. Still looks a lot like a Greatclub, still gets you 1d8 damage and you still add proficiency because you have the Tavern Brawler feat. Next you whittle a better handle. You heft it nicely with two hands and swing at someone with it, but the GM rules that it now doesn't just [B]resemble[/B] a Greatclub, it [B]is[/B] a Greatclub. Therefore you lose your proficiency bonus with it, because it is no longer an improvised weapon. That would, to me, be a bad ruling. The problem is that I only see three ways this can go according to the rules as written: 1) Decide that any manufactured weapon can't be improvised, which means ignoring part of the basic improvised weapon rules. 2) Rule that improvisedness is a binary state that is somehow lost at some point, regardless of how much I find that silly (I'm sure there are people out there who are happy to rule this way, and that's fine. I'm just saying that it's a perfectly reasonable thing to [I]not[/I] want to rule this way, too) 3) Do something to the way Tavern Brawler interacts with weapons which is effectively a houserule. As you can see, I favour approach 3. [/QUOTE]
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