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<blockquote data-quote="Rune" data-source="post: 6499906" data-attributes="member: 67">Here we go again. As I've said a few times, the language of the improvised weapon rules strongly implies (to me) that an object that is used as a weapon does not automatically grant proficiency in it (even though they do not explicitly say so). Specifically, the text reads that such an object &quot;can be treated as&quot; the weapon. If that weapon is one that the weilder is not proficient in, the logical inferrence is that the improvised weapon (and, yes, the rules still imply that such an object still is) is not intended to grant a proficiency bonus to someone who isn't proficient with the weapon being resembled. This is really the crux of the entire issue. All of the other arguments going on in this thread are incidental, because, if the improv weapons rules do not grant automatic proficiency, their mechanical significance goes away. Even if (in my head at least) it makes no narrative sense that a greatsword could be used as a greatclub (because physics), the mechanics of the game don't care, because the character isn't getting any free bonuses; the only thing gained is the ability to effectively not be without a weapon with which s/he is proficient. Tavern brawler doesn't care because it resets the damage to 1d4, even if a weapon is being improvised as another weapon (specific beats general). Sure you're proficient at everything. At 1d4.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Rune, post: 6499906, member: 67"] Here we go again. As I've said a few times, the language of the improvised weapon rules strongly implies (to me) that an object that is used as a weapon does not automatically grant proficiency in it (even though they do not explicitly say so). Specifically, the text reads that such an object "can [b]be treated as[/b]" the weapon. If that weapon is one that the weilder is not proficient in, the logical inferrence is that the improvised weapon (and, yes, the rules still imply that such an object still is) is not intended to grant a proficiency bonus to someone who isn't proficient with the weapon being resembled. This is really the crux of the entire issue. All of the other arguments going on in this thread are incidental, because, if the improv weapons rules do not grant automatic proficiency, their mechanical significance goes away. Even if (in my head at least) it makes no narrative sense that a greatsword could be used as a greatclub (because physics), the mechanics of the game don't care, because the character isn't getting any free bonuses; the only thing gained is the ability to effectively not be without a weapon with which s/he is proficient. Tavern brawler doesn't care because it resets the damage to 1d4, even if a weapon is being improvised as another weapon (specific beats general). Sure you're proficient at everything. At 1d4. [/QUOTE]

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