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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6504752" data-attributes="member: 12731">No, since Tavern Brawler doesn't add anything to #3, which is the only worthwhile scenario here.#1 If I read you correctly you argue this applies to everyone. So Tavern Brawler is worthless#2 This is simply worthless in all cases, since your fists do comparable damage (with or without Tavern Brawler: the difference between 1 and d4 is between pathetic and pathetic, i.e. zero)#3 Again, what does Tavern Brawler bring to the table? (Do note I don't hold you against this, but the rules, which are terribly unclear) Of course you can take Tavern Brawler for any of its other benefits, but to me, in order for me to take Tavern Brawler for its implied advantages in barroom brawls using improvised weapons, I need an interpretation thata) allows the tavern brawler to use dead goblins as clubs and braziers as halberds etc, assuming he has the necessary proficiencies, assuming he is I&amp;O*andb) doesn't allow anyone else this, i.e. anyone else would treat those objects as merely d4 improvised weapons w/o proficiency bonusIn effect, allowing the Tavern Brawler to use all his existing proficiencies even without any real weaponry, as long as the player can dazzle me the DM with sufficiently inventive and outrageous descriptions/explanations to make me allow the &quot;goblin as club&quot; or &quot;brazier as halberd&quot; ruling in each case.*) I&amp;O = Inventive &amp; Outrageous; which you now know what it means because you've read the preceding paragraph <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />So, if your answer to the &quot;#3: what does Tavern Brawler bring to the table?&quot; question above is &quot;everything since I only allow this for Tavern Brawlers&quot; then you've read this entire post in vain because I already fully agree! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 6504752, member: 12731"] No, since Tavern Brawler doesn't add anything to #3, which is the only worthwhile scenario here. #1 If I read you correctly you argue this applies to everyone. So Tavern Brawler is worthless #2 This is simply worthless in all cases, since your fists do comparable damage (with or without Tavern Brawler: the difference between 1 and d4 is between pathetic and pathetic, i.e. zero) #3 Again, what does Tavern Brawler bring to the table? (Do note I don't hold [I]you[/I] against this, but the rules, which are terribly unclear) Of course you can take Tavern Brawler for any of its other benefits, but to me, in order for me to take Tavern Brawler for its implied advantages in barroom brawls using improvised weapons, I need an interpretation that a) allows the tavern brawler to use dead goblins as clubs and braziers as halberds etc, assuming he has the necessary proficiencies, assuming he is I&O* and b) doesn't allow anyone else this, i.e. anyone else would treat those objects as merely d4 improvised weapons w/o proficiency bonus In effect, allowing the Tavern Brawler to use all his existing proficiencies even without any real weaponry, as long as the player can dazzle me the DM with sufficiently inventive and outrageous descriptions/explanations to make me allow the "goblin as club" or "brazier as halberd" ruling in each case. *) I&O = Inventive & Outrageous; which you now know what it means because you've read the preceding paragraph :) So, if your answer to the "#3: what does Tavern Brawler bring to the table?" question above is "everything since I only allow this for Tavern Brawlers" then you've read this entire post in vain because I already fully agree! :) [/QUOTE]

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