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Message: <blockquote data-quote="eriktheguy" data-source="post: 4924470" data-attributes="member: 83662">I can definitely see the point you are making here, and for the most part agree. Ability scores serve to basically add a static modifier to what your character can do, but they tend to serve a completely different purpose than they did when originally introduced. Back in 2nd edition, you needed 17 Str or 15 Dex before you even saw an improvement to combat statistics, and these scores were very hard to come by. Ability scores dictated what you were good at out of combat, and rarely affected combat. In the present edition most classes have an 18 to their attack stat, occasionally a 20 and rarely a 16. You basically choose between how you want your scores spread among your classes one primary and two secondary attributes and get bonuses accordingly. These numbers could all be satisfied in a class based engine. For example, fighters could choose as they level to grant greater bonuses to their dexterity type attacks, con type attacks, or wisdom type abilities. Additionally, characters could choose which skills they are good at without ability scores and use this to describe their character, rather than using ability scores to describe why they are good at certain skills. I myself have below average strength (low athletics?) but happen to be an excellent jumper and climber for someone of my size.Removing the ability score system entirely is a radical move, and might piss off some veterans in ways 4e only began to. Your ability scores allow you to customize your characters combat and non-combat abilities at the same time. They also make more sense in terms of some cross class and non-class specific feats. A fighter with high wisdom gains a bonus both from his fighter class, and from his cleric cross class, as well as boosting his heal skill. If the system did not use ability scores, a fighter that focused on 'wisdom-type' abilities might not be able to translate any of this skill over to his cleric build. One of the advantages of the ability score system is synergy, a character with high wisdom gets to take advantage of the bonuses for all his classes, skills, feats etc. A class based system would be harder pressed to do this (opinion). I can't think of an easy way to make a fighter who focuses on wisdom based skills a better cleric other than to make that character one with high wisdom. It seems the simplest way to do it.Using classes instead of abilities to define these things has its merits though. It encourages more race/class combos, and probably allows for much deeper character customization. There is definitely a strong case for either systemI hope wizards challenges themselves to build a new ability score system for the next edition though. One that starts at 0 or 1 would make sense. The current system uses the 'even ability scores increase bonus, odd scores qualify for feats' rule, but I think this is just an excuse to continue using the legacy system they adopted from 2nd to 3rd edition. A system with less time spent on ability scores would be nice (imagine if your starting scores only ranged from 0 to 5!). I have brought so many new people into the game since the new edition, simply because the rules are much easier to learn, so any simplification that doesn't subtract from gameplay is a great move in my books! At present it takes me about 20 minutes on my computer to make a character for a new player (while discussing with them what they want). I challenge wizards to bring this down to 10. I find that for new players ability scores take the longest to decide on, and I often just do it myself with minimal input from them.</blockquote>

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