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*Dungeons & Dragons
An Odd Rules Issue with Suggestion
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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 7837166" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>It sounds like one of those ambiguous moments where the goblins were trying to escape combat and initiate a chase scene, and one of the players wanted to cast a spell to thwart their escape? I could be mistaken, but that's what it sounds like based on your description.</p><p></p><p>Often, in similar moments transitioning from combat turns to a chase scene, I like to give the attackers a chance to short circuit the retreat, but I also like to make it hard for the attackers (usually by limiting line of sight unless a high Perception check is rolled or creative means / resources are used to gain line of sight).</p><p></p><p>In this case, I think adhering strictly to initiative and movement speeds may have been hampering resolution.</p><p></p><p>From the outside looking in, I'd wonder whether "<em>the only way you'll survive is to throw the sword back" </em>would appear reasonable to the goblin? Who did the goblin think was the bigger threat – the Undead Guardian or the PCs or the demanding Goblin Boss waiting back at home? Did the goblin believe that the bigger threat would stop chasing if it didn't have the sword? Conversely, if the goblin viewed the Goblin Boss (or whomever it serves) as the bigger threat, did it anticipate surviving its return home empty-handed?</p><p></p><p>For the sake of argument, let's say it was reasonable. How the goblin might interpret that comment from a scheming sneaky goblin paradigm? Would tossing back a short sword it was carrying, slipping it into the old sword's scabbard as a decoy meet the terms of the <em>suggestion</em>?</p><p></p><p>From a pure rules standpoint on the wording of <em>suggestion, </em>the key section is:</p><p></p><p><em>On a failed save, it pursues the course of action you described to the best of its ability. The suggested course of action can continue for the entire duration. If the suggested activity can be completed in a shorter time, the spell ends when the subject finishes what it was asked to do.</em></p><p></p><p>Since it's a concentration spell that can involve a task lasting up to 8 hours long, I think the design intent is to genuinely attempt to accomplish the task to the best of its ability. In this case, that could include defending against anyone (including PCs or goblins) who attempted to wrest the sword away & whom didn't appear to intend to throw the sword back. Now, at that point if the other goblin was savvy to what was going on, it might attempt a Deception check to convince its ally that it has a better throwing arm to toss the sword back, and that this will help them both stay alive.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 7837166, member: 20323"] It sounds like one of those ambiguous moments where the goblins were trying to escape combat and initiate a chase scene, and one of the players wanted to cast a spell to thwart their escape? I could be mistaken, but that's what it sounds like based on your description. Often, in similar moments transitioning from combat turns to a chase scene, I like to give the attackers a chance to short circuit the retreat, but I also like to make it hard for the attackers (usually by limiting line of sight unless a high Perception check is rolled or creative means / resources are used to gain line of sight). In this case, I think adhering strictly to initiative and movement speeds may have been hampering resolution. From the outside looking in, I'd wonder whether "[I]the only way you'll survive is to throw the sword back" [/I]would appear reasonable to the goblin? Who did the goblin think was the bigger threat – the Undead Guardian or the PCs or the demanding Goblin Boss waiting back at home? Did the goblin believe that the bigger threat would stop chasing if it didn't have the sword? Conversely, if the goblin viewed the Goblin Boss (or whomever it serves) as the bigger threat, did it anticipate surviving its return home empty-handed? For the sake of argument, let's say it was reasonable. How the goblin might interpret that comment from a scheming sneaky goblin paradigm? Would tossing back a short sword it was carrying, slipping it into the old sword's scabbard as a decoy meet the terms of the [I]suggestion[/I]? From a pure rules standpoint on the wording of [I]suggestion, [/I]the key section is: [I]On a failed save, it pursues the course of action you described to the best of its ability. The suggested course of action can continue for the entire duration. If the suggested activity can be completed in a shorter time, the spell ends when the subject finishes what it was asked to do.[/I] Since it's a concentration spell that can involve a task lasting up to 8 hours long, I think the design intent is to genuinely attempt to accomplish the task to the best of its ability. In this case, that could include defending against anyone (including PCs or goblins) who attempted to wrest the sword away & whom didn't appear to intend to throw the sword back. Now, at that point if the other goblin was savvy to what was going on, it might attempt a Deception check to convince its ally that it has a better throwing arm to toss the sword back, and that this will help them both stay alive. [/QUOTE]
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