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D&D Older Editions
An Olive Branch to 4e Fans: Some Things 5e Should Take From 4e
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<blockquote data-quote="mkill" data-source="post: 5804173" data-attributes="member: 55985"><p>Fully agree on all points. In fact, I'd play a 3E that implemented all these.</p><p></p><p></p><p>True, but I always wanted to save at the start of the turn, not at the end.</p><p>At the start of the turn, you want to roll because you want to get rid of the attack and act. At the end of the turn, you're mentally done with the turn and forget to roll the save.</p><p></p><p>Now, I understand that rolling saves at the start of the turn is a big nerf for controllers and control-style powers because they now need to pass 2 checks to take effect (attack and first save). However, there are ways to counter that (create staged effects in which the first save reduces the effect, but does not negate; give an attack bonus; give a penalty on the first save; make the effect strong enough that a power with two barriers is still good)</p><p></p><p></p><p>The idea was good. The big issue with implements though was that they didn't get a proficiency bonus to attack. Instead, implement powers were expected to hit Fort/Ref/Will, which was expected to be lower than AC (but often weren't). This created a number of annoying issues.</p><p></p><p>If 5E uses implements, make them exactly like weapons (including giving them a damage die). The only difference should be that some can't be used as melee weapons.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mkill, post: 5804173, member: 55985"] Fully agree on all points. In fact, I'd play a 3E that implemented all these. True, but I always wanted to save at the start of the turn, not at the end. At the start of the turn, you want to roll because you want to get rid of the attack and act. At the end of the turn, you're mentally done with the turn and forget to roll the save. Now, I understand that rolling saves at the start of the turn is a big nerf for controllers and control-style powers because they now need to pass 2 checks to take effect (attack and first save). However, there are ways to counter that (create staged effects in which the first save reduces the effect, but does not negate; give an attack bonus; give a penalty on the first save; make the effect strong enough that a power with two barriers is still good) The idea was good. The big issue with implements though was that they didn't get a proficiency bonus to attack. Instead, implement powers were expected to hit Fort/Ref/Will, which was expected to be lower than AC (but often weren't). This created a number of annoying issues. If 5E uses implements, make them exactly like weapons (including giving them a damage die). The only difference should be that some can't be used as melee weapons. [/QUOTE]
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