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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8392191" data-attributes="member: 87792">Honestly it's unfair not to include feats in the discussion of the fighter and the rogue; they get extra ASIs which can be spent on feats and in my experience (as with yours) most groups play with feats. With classes other than the fighter and the rogue it's definitely viable to not take a first feat before level 12; all classes get a significant bonus from spending their first two ASIs on raising their primary stat to 20 and array and point buy are both common. It's only when you move into improving your secondary stats (and possibly not them for a monk) that feats are definitely more useful than ASIs. And the feats more or less cancel between classes - except for the two classes that get extra ASIs/feats, when there's little argument to spend ASIs after maxing your primary stat.But with all classes except the fighter or the rogue most characters are IME likely to only have at most half a feat before level 12 in the majority of cases because they want that sweet 20 in their primary stat and it's a very defensible choice. The fighter should, by the same token, have their first feat no later than level 8 - and has an extra feat of course. This doesn't cancel out.</blockquote>