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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6541683" data-attributes="member: 6787650">Goristro wasn't my idea originally--I've been talking more in terms of elementals--but yeah, research the name + Gate spell is the only way I can think of to get a Goristro. Well, maybe Plane Shift would work too (I'm AFB and can't check the conditions on Planar Binding) but I wouldn't try it that way...Wait, when did I ever say using dropping loads of elementals on the PCs was "'punishing' [the] Wizard" or not understanding the spells? In fact I've said the exact opposite: if I were running an Underdark campaign with wealthy, high-level NPCs, they would be sending 40,000 gp worth of bound minions out to kill their enemies (and Banishment won't help against 40 air elementals) any time they can locate those enemies. I've declared my intention to do exactly this with my next ubervillain (with the expectation that the minion squadrons will function more as a plot device to hide from, a la Wicked Witch's winged monkeys, and as general-purpose evil muscle not targeted specifically at the puny heroes--unless the heroes bring themselves to his attention).I'm AFB, but are the Goristro's Cha saves really that bad? I've found that most high-CR monsters actually have pretty decent Cha saves, and are actually weakest on DX. In any case, 4 PCs are unlikely to be able to Banish even a small platoon of basic CR 5 Air Elementals before the Air Elementals kill them to death, with 560 * (hit percentage) damage per round and move 90. (Or the elementals may grapple PCs and Dash upward.) Even if the PCs win initiative, and every single PC casts Banish every round, and every Banish succeeds, that's still 1120 HP * (hit percentage) of damage you're eating before they're all gone. Frankly I'd be more worried about Meteor Swarm than Banish if I were the elementals' master. (Note: if you're using elemental squads, you shouldn't use CR 5 elementals anyway. Spend the extra spell slots to summon CR 8 or CR 9 greater elementals instead, since it's the same gold cost and the spell slot cost doesn't matter.)TLDR; I just don't see Banish as a viable countertactic. It's more something you use on enemies fueled by the Concentration economy, but against gold-fueled enemies it's like trying to fight an avalanche with a fire hose: you need an awful lot of Banishers to keep up with the influx.</blockquote>

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