Andy Collins - Incarnum Support in Dragon Magic

[MerricB]

Posted on the Wizards boards: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9439705#post9439705

As the lead developer of Magic of Incarnum, it's heartening to hear from so many folks who are enjoying the book.

We knew full well at the time that it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but that was kind of the point. A couple times a year, I think it behooves us to throw a curve ball--a book whose topic, format, or approach is just flat-out different from what folks expect. Even if those books aren't necessarily as successful as the "normal" line of books, it keeps the game experience lively and allows writers (and gamers) to experiment with crazy ideas.

As many of you have pointed out, new rules systems (particularly those that heavily depend on new classes) are a double-edged sword. There are only so many pages a year for us to publish new game material, and not every new idea merits taking away page count from the more popular, established systems (and classes).

Typically, the highest reasonable level of support is the "toe in the water" approach (such as psionic support in the 2 years following XPH, or the new artificer infusions scattered throughout various Eberron sourcebooks).

Sometimes, this can result in "jumping back into the pool" (see Complete Psionics), but those instances are rare. After all, psionics had been around in one form or another for 25 years or so before it got a second book of support in the same edition.

I recognize that some folks see every new soulmeld or warlock invocation as "taking away what would have been the 101st perfect spell for my wizard's spellbook." With all due respect, I disagree with that stance, and when I'm developing a book I work to ensure that we give the occasional nod to the hexblade, or the psychic warrior, or even the favored soul. Honestly, I think your wizard can survive with one or two fewer spells than she would've had if we'd shorted the hexblade his tiny amount of love.

We'll be doing a bit more toe-dipping for various systems in some upcoming books, including a small number of soulmelds in Dragon Magic. Enough to shell out for the book by themselves? Of course not--but that book has so much of the cool in it that you'll be happy you did.

It's too early to say whether that kind of support is an anomaly or a sign of things to come, so please don't take away an unreasonable expectation. I'm not promising that soulmelds are going to become a standard section in every sourcebook, and I'm certainly not suggesting that Complete Incarnate is high on our to-do list. (Though this thread certainly didn't hurt.) Take it for what it is, and keep telling us (and other folks) how much fun you're having allocating essentia and binding soulmelds. Anything can happen.

Just ask the psion.

(Here's hoping you don't have to wait 25 years...)
__________________
Andy Collins
RPG Developer
Wizards of the Coast R&D

 

[ForceUser]

I still don't know what to do with incarnum. I like the concept, but I don't see how I could integrate it into my current campaign without polluting the thematic I'm going for. I'm all over this book if I ever get to run an Indian/southeast Asian campaign, though!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Blah, I want more news about Dragon Magic! The kobold cult of a missing green dragon in my campaign might well be great candidates for it.

 

[Razz]

Funny how he mentions Complete Psionic...like that actually helped psionics in any way. :\

If Complete Incarnate turns up and is similar to what CP was, don't say I didn't tell you so.

 

[Felon]

I still don't know what to do with incarnum.

That's a hurdle for a lot of folks, myself included. The book doesn't offer a real good summary of what incarnum's got to offer. A few paragraphs that grab the prospective player or DM by the sleeve and says "ok, look, here's the point of all this; this is what you get" might've resulted into it snapping into place for a lot of folks. But there's no bottom-line-oriented pitch--by page 6 the book talks to the reader like you're an old hand already. So, either do your homework and read the book extensively or just flip through it a bit and when nothing clicks, put it on the heap and forget about it.

Which is what happened with me and the folks I game with. I know about soulmelds, essentia, and chakras, but none of it really clicks in any significant way. If I had to sum it up on the fly, I'd say it's a system for giving a character customized, built-in magic items--sort of like magical cybernetics. That's probably doing the concept a disservice, but that's sort of the point.

 

[Staffan]

After all, psionics had been around in one form or another for 25 years or so before it got a second book of support in the same edition.

Bah. I'd classify The Will & The Way and, to a lesser degree, Dragon Kings as support for the psionics system in 2nd ed.

 

[Graf]

Incarnum works best as an “alternative magic system”.

Unlike psionics (where the difference with arcane magic is more flavor/structure) Incarnum is more like the binder… a unique magical system that functions differently.

Having said that the biggest (probably only) reason why Incarnum isn’t in wide use is that it two out of the three classes* are more-psychotically-rabid-about-their-alignment-than-paladins.
I understand that Wyatt (a brilliant and creative fellow) really pushed for having there be a moral component but… other than the “you have to be psycho-obsessed with following an alignment to the nth degree” flavor text there is no actual –ethical- component involved.
No actual moral choice (i.e. my power uses unborn souls but I can use it for the greater good), no roleplaying advice, no discussion of how characters grapple with playing someone totally and obsessively devoted to an abstract concept, no code of conduct, no there-is-no-code-of-conduct-people-are-responsible-to-themselves type explanation, no nothing.

In other words, right out off the bat, DMs need to either Rule Zero what is presented as a core element of the rule set, create a new set of super-alignment-codes that the characters have to follow or else resign themselves to more extraordinarily dumb arguments about whether someone is playing their alignment in an extreme enough fashion (ala the paladin).

*Totemist is a great class but its shares virtually no soulbinds with the other classes and presupposes an (very interesting) alien barbarian culture. So it is simultaneously easy to integrate but different than almost everything else currently in the game setting.

 

[Greenstone]

Incarnum worked well for me

Incarnum worked like a dream for me...

I'm in the fifth month of a Lost City of Barakus campaign (with major plot and setting changes from the original book).

The setting is very, very "Medieval England" in feel, and I had a character determined to play a monk with the Nimbus of Light feat. His history was interesing, but he didn't seem to fit in, until the player and I discussed Incarnum.

So now he's "realised" he's the descendant of a bloodline of ancient champions of good who wielded Incarnum against their necromancer enemies in a lost age. The PC now knows he's the first person in over 300 years to have the "blessed" power of Incarnum (which gives him his Nimbus of Light power), and he's mapping out his rouite to Monk/Soulborn/Incandescent Champion... but he is only slowly learning what his power means, and that "with great power comes great responsibility...".

Also, if the gods of Light have chosen to "send back" Incarnum into the world, surely the gods of Evil and Darkness have added Necrocarnum back into the mix... a reckoning, as they say, must be on the way... .

For me, any new rules/class/feat should always be adjusted/tweaked by the DM to fit into the campaign setting and its history... and a good DM should be able to do do this for almost any option WOTC might throw our way....

 

[glass]

Bah. I'd classify The Will & The Way and, to a lesser degree, Dragon Kings as support for the psionics system in 2nd ed.

My first thought on reading that was 'psionics hadn't been in D&D for 25 years when TW&TW came out, had it?'


glass.

 

[Felon]

I understand that Wyatt (a brilliant and creative fellow) really pushed for having there be a moral component but… other than the “you have to be psycho-obsessed with following an alignment to the nth degree” flavor text there is no actual –ethical- component involved.
No actual moral choice (i.e. my power uses unborn souls but I can use it for the greater good), no roleplaying advice, no discussion of how characters grapple with playing someone totally and obsessively devoted to an abstract concept, no code of conduct, no there-is-no-code-of-conduct-people-are-responsible-to-themselves type explanation, no nothing.

Regarding using unborn souls, one thing that's pretty clearly established about incarnum (yet seems to constantly require clarification) is that it doesn't consume or damage the soul energy being used in the process. Necrocarnum is an exception.

As to the alignment convictions of the incarnate and soulborn, why does it require explicit codification about how they conduct themselves? Their alignment is their code. A lawful good soulborn has to uphold that alignment.