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Message: <blockquote data-quote="painandgreed" data-source="post: 3395033" data-attributes="member: 24969">Some thoughts on this stuff,I don't think you can really get rid of the basic seven (because magic bags are just as much of a demanded item and more so than half those items to many players) unless you play low magic or low level and limit those things. Even then, if the PCs can get the feats to make those magic items, they will. Those are simply the main items that are needed in combat which is a large part of this game.If you want player to pay attention to other items, then the other items have to be used. One thing that became obvious to me in the last game I was in that made it to 13th level or so, is that mind sheilding devices are a must for kings, wizards, politicians, merchants, and just about anybody with a decent amount of money and power. If they didn't exist, bluff and diplomacy would quickly be worthless, plans couldn't be kept, secrets wouldn't exist, and intrigue would always fail. In a world of scrying magic users, mind reading monsters, lie decerning clerics, and detecting paladins, defences to protect your secrets becomes pretty valuable fairly quickly. I've seen that one clever succubus could quickly unhinge civilization if the people in power weren't protected though a savage species campaign. Similarly, other segments of civilization will have different requirements. Around ports and coasts, water breathing and swimming items will probably be very common amoung the NPCs at least. If you want PCs to use other things besides combat items, then pose those other conditions as threats to the PCs. In a sea going campaign, see how much they value a swimming trinket if they have to make an effective save or die roll not to get washed off the deck into the ocean during a storm. If in the mountains or desert, pull out the environment rules and start making them fear killing cold, heat, or dehydration. Once the PCs are faced with a need for items other than the basic seven, you'll see them obtain them.One thing that is hard to do, and you sort of have to let the PCs do it on their own, are all the minor items that would be in big demand that players never buy because they don't actually have to live those lives. Magic items that made decent tasting food, cloaks that keep the wearer warm and dry magically, items that make you appear clean and well kept. The clever DM could add in lots of misc modifiers here and there which might make the PCs want them, otherwise they're just sort of flavor items even though lots would exist in any world where they could be made.But still, I have issues with saying that changing the price is an option to bringing these items into use. By that, they're saying the prices weren't properly blanaced to begin with, and it still won't matter because they'll still buy the big seven because they still won't need those other items. If they never needed a wand of enemy detection at 23.5k, they're still not going to need one at 12k. If the prices were balanced, and you lower them, trust me when I say that some enterprising soul WILL exploit the new price. They'll yank out those wands of enemy detection and blow the entire adventure path in the first session as they wander around town preforming sting operations to find out who is behind everything and skip the big dungeon dwelve to uncover the identities of the evil clerics.</blockquote>

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