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<blockquote data-quote="Wayside" data-source="post: 916279" data-attributes="member: 8394"><p>You crack me up. The 'misdirection' (like I already said, it isn't misdirection, but if that's the word you want for it have at it) isn't great, therefore I choose to believe it isn't deliberate. Whether it's bad writing accidentally or purposefully, well, I prefer accidentally. The emotion being shown after the attempted rape looked much more like anger at feeling self-loathing than simple self loathing, which is just obvious (examples to follow, since peoples’ memories here are so flawed).</p><p></p><p>(Just so you know though, 'misdirection' and your belief that 'every single thing that is said about Spike's quest could be applied to either the chip or his soul' are incompatible. Ambiguity is not misdirection. However, as I will show, it’s not as ambiguous as you’d like it to be.)</p><p></p><p>You know, when I saw The 6th Sense the plot twist was apparent 25 minutes in, and when it became <em>wicked</em> obvious 10 minutes later I got up and walked out. It was crap writing. The writers of a TV series leaving themselves room is cool, but they screwed this one up. Just because you expected them to go there doesn't make it good.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Good TV is nice, but that's not why I watched Buffy. It was actually good writing at times, not just good TV. And for Christ's sake, either you also think there is a contradiction, or there is no ploy. You people are mixing things up. If it's just ambiguous, there is no ploy. There's indecision. "We'll decide how to proceed in the off-season. This is good enough for now." Now, for the lines in question: I am fully aware of the only quote anyone’s been willing to mention (the ‘give Buffy what she deserves’ line), the accurate text of which is:</p><p></p><p>SPIKE (cont'd)</p><p>Got any more ruddy tests, ya ponce?</p><p>I'll take anything you throw at me.</p><p>If it'll get me what I need to take</p><p>care of the Slayer, give her what's</p><p>coming to her, you just bring it on.</p><p>Bring on the whole--</p><p></p><p>(Is that ambiguous? Hell yes. The problem is, that is from the finale, Grave, and all the important lines are from three epsidodes earlier, Seeing Red (these are excerpts, not one flowing conversation. It is significant, however, that he doesn’t call her Buffy.):</p><p></p><p>SPIKE</p><p>What have I done?</p><p>(then)</p><p>Why didn't I do it? What has she</p><p>done to me?</p><p></p><p>(Why didn’t he do it? Why <em>didn’t</em> he rape her?)</p><p></p><p>SPIKE</p><p>Why do I feel this way?</p><p></p><p>CLEM</p><p>(shrugs)</p><p>Love's a funny thing.</p><p></p><p>SPIKE</p><p>Is that what this is?</p><p></p><p>CLEM</p><p>Well, I don't know. Drinking,</p><p>breaking stuff -- how's your appetite?</p><p>You been eating?</p><p></p><p>SPIKE</p><p>I can feel it. Squirming inside my</p><p>head.</p><p></p><p>CLEM</p><p>Love?</p><p></p><p>SPIKE</p><p>The chip. Little Jiminy Cricket,</p><p>gnawing bits and chunks.</p><p>Spike puts his fingers to his heads probing harshly as if he's going to gouge the chip out with his bare hands. Clem eyes him with concern.</p><p></p><p>(Ambiguous? I think not)</p><p></p><p>CLEM</p><p>(re: Spike's head)</p><p>Maybe a wet cloth...?</p><p></p><p>SPIKE</p><p>Everything used to be so clear.</p><p>Slayer. Vampire. Vampire kills</p><p>Slayer, sucks her dry, picks his</p><p>teeth with her bones.</p><p></p><p>SPIKE</p><p>That's how it's always been. I've</p><p>tasted the life of two Slayers. But</p><p>with Buffy...</p><p>(hating himself)</p><p>This isn't the way it's supposed to</p><p>be. It's the chip. Steel and wires</p><p>and silicon. It won't let me be a</p><p>monster. And I can't be a man. I'm</p><p>nothing.</p><p></p><p>(This at least could go either way, taken out of context. In context, I’m afraid not).</p><p></p><p>SPIKE</p><p>She thinks she knows me. She thinks</p><p>she knows who I am. What I'm capable</p><p>of. She has no idea. I wasn't always</p><p>this way. It won't be easy, but I</p><p>can be like I was. Before they</p><p>castrated me. Before...</p><p>(a beat)</p><p>Then she'll see who I really am.</p><p></p><p>(If they had just left out the castration remark, this could be ambiguous, but it isn’t. It’s referring to the chip. There’s no room for interpretation).</p><p></p><p>SPIKE</p><p>Get nice and comfy Slayer. I'll be</p><p>back. And when I do... it's all</p><p>gonna change.</p><p></p><p>(Doesn’t help that he’s calling her Slayer again.)</p><p> </p><p>So, why do I call this a mistake? Because if the writers wrote the end of 6 this way, knowing they are going to switch gears and ignore ALL of it in 7, they are morons. However, I am quite confident they are not morons, so it is obviously just a case of changed directions. Buddy.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Wayside, post: 916279, member: 8394"] You crack me up. The 'misdirection' (like I already said, it isn't misdirection, but if that's the word you want for it have at it) isn't great, therefore I choose to believe it isn't deliberate. Whether it's bad writing accidentally or purposefully, well, I prefer accidentally. The emotion being shown after the attempted rape looked much more like anger at feeling self-loathing than simple self loathing, which is just obvious (examples to follow, since peoples’ memories here are so flawed). (Just so you know though, 'misdirection' and your belief that 'every single thing that is said about Spike's quest could be applied to either the chip or his soul' are incompatible. Ambiguity is not misdirection. However, as I will show, it’s not as ambiguous as you’d like it to be.) You know, when I saw The 6th Sense the plot twist was apparent 25 minutes in, and when it became [I]wicked[/I] obvious 10 minutes later I got up and walked out. It was crap writing. The writers of a TV series leaving themselves room is cool, but they screwed this one up. Just because you expected them to go there doesn't make it good. Good TV is nice, but that's not why I watched Buffy. It was actually good writing at times, not just good TV. And for Christ's sake, either you also think there is a contradiction, or there is no ploy. You people are mixing things up. If it's just ambiguous, there is no ploy. There's indecision. "We'll decide how to proceed in the off-season. This is good enough for now." Now, for the lines in question: I am fully aware of the only quote anyone’s been willing to mention (the ‘give Buffy what she deserves’ line), the accurate text of which is: SPIKE (cont'd) Got any more ruddy tests, ya ponce? I'll take anything you throw at me. If it'll get me what I need to take care of the Slayer, give her what's coming to her, you just bring it on. Bring on the whole-- (Is that ambiguous? Hell yes. The problem is, that is from the finale, Grave, and all the important lines are from three epsidodes earlier, Seeing Red (these are excerpts, not one flowing conversation. It is significant, however, that he doesn’t call her Buffy.): SPIKE What have I done? (then) Why didn't I do it? What has she done to me? (Why didn’t he do it? Why [I]didn’t[/I] he rape her?) SPIKE Why do I feel this way? CLEM (shrugs) Love's a funny thing. SPIKE Is that what this is? CLEM Well, I don't know. Drinking, breaking stuff -- how's your appetite? You been eating? SPIKE I can feel it. Squirming inside my head. CLEM Love? SPIKE The chip. Little Jiminy Cricket, gnawing bits and chunks. Spike puts his fingers to his heads probing harshly as if he's going to gouge the chip out with his bare hands. Clem eyes him with concern. (Ambiguous? I think not) CLEM (re: Spike's head) Maybe a wet cloth...? SPIKE Everything used to be so clear. Slayer. Vampire. Vampire kills Slayer, sucks her dry, picks his teeth with her bones. SPIKE That's how it's always been. I've tasted the life of two Slayers. But with Buffy... (hating himself) This isn't the way it's supposed to be. It's the chip. Steel and wires and silicon. It won't let me be a monster. And I can't be a man. I'm nothing. (This at least could go either way, taken out of context. In context, I’m afraid not). SPIKE She thinks she knows me. She thinks she knows who I am. What I'm capable of. She has no idea. I wasn't always this way. It won't be easy, but I can be like I was. Before they castrated me. Before... (a beat) Then she'll see who I really am. (If they had just left out the castration remark, this could be ambiguous, but it isn’t. It’s referring to the chip. There’s no room for interpretation). SPIKE Get nice and comfy Slayer. I'll be back. And when I do... it's all gonna change. (Doesn’t help that he’s calling her Slayer again.) So, why do I call this a mistake? Because if the writers wrote the end of 6 this way, knowing they are going to switch gears and ignore ALL of it in 7, they are morons. However, I am quite confident they are not morons, so it is obviously just a case of changed directions. Buddy. [/QUOTE]
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