Animate Dead, Evil Domain, Caster Level...

[prospero63]

The search appears broken at the moment, so I can't find if this has been asked and answered.

The evil domain increases the caster level for all spells with the evil descriptor by +1.

Animate dead states that the caster can control 4HD per caster level of undead.

If a cleric is 5th level and has the evil domain, he casts animate dead as a 6th level caster. Does that increase the number of undead that can be controlled accordingly? So instead of being able to control 20HD (4HD*5CL) the number is 24HD (4HD*6CL)?

TIA

 

[Herzog]

yes?

why do you doubt that?

 

[prospero63]

yes?

why do you doubt that?

I don't. DM does. To me it's cut and dry. 4HD per caster level. Evil domain makes the CL +1. Ergo, if cleric has a CL of 5, domain is +1, HD controlled is 24 ((5+1)*4)).

 

[Herzog]

Ok, let me rephrase that.

Why does your DM doubt that?

What is his/her reasoning to the contrary?

Does he think it only applies to duration and/or range?
Or is there some other restriction that should be in place according to him/her?

Without that information, it's very hard to try to help you convince your DM.

 

[frankthedm]

I see where the OP's DM is coming from.

Evil Domain: Granted Power: You cast evil spells at +1 caster level.

When you are casting an evil spell you'll be one level up for casting that spell. Thing is the rules for Animate Dead keep track of you long after you are done casting the instantaneous spell. This might be reading a little too literally for some, but there definitely are grounds for this DM's reading.


Animate Dead
Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can’t create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. (The desecrate spell doubles this limit)

The undead you create remain under your control indefinitely. No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. (You choose which creatures are released.) If you are a cleric, any undead you might command by virtue of your power to command or rebuke undead do not count toward the limit.

 

[prospero63]

The DM is saying that the number of undead you can control has nothing to do with the caster level at the time of casting, and in fact has nothing to do with the spell animate dead. The ability to control 4HD worth of undead per caster level is defined somewhere else in the rules. Thus, my caster level doesn't matter.

In a nutshell, IMO, he's reading into the rules, not reading the rules.

 

[Set]

Where this interpretation can get wonky is dealing with other means of affecting casting level, such as Death Knell or a Bead of Karma.

IMO, it's not the intent of the caster level increases, and I wouldn't allow it as a DM. As a player, any DM that disagreed and liked that intrepretation would have my complete support, since I love to play negative energy channeling clerics, and this sort of thing would only make them even more fun.

 

[prospero63]

Where this interpretation can get wonky is dealing with other means of affecting casting level, such as Death Knell or a Bead of Karma.

IMO, it's not the intent of the caster level increases, and I wouldn't allow it as a DM. As a player, any DM that disagreed and liked that intrepretation would have my complete support, since I love to play negative energy channeling clerics, and this sort of thing would only make them even more fun.

Unfortunately, that's not what the rules say. Increases to caster level are throughout the game. The whole point of them is to increase the effectiveness of spells. Coupled with the fact that Animate Dead is an instantaneous spell and very clearly stipulates not only the number of HD per caster level, but also provides clear rules for what happens when you exceed that number, I don't see how the RAW support any position other than increasing the number of HD one can control at the time of the spells casting.

Unless of course someone can find me where, other than in the description of animate dead, that specifies the number of HD one can control.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I see where the OP's DM is coming from.

Evil Domain: Granted Power: You cast evil spells at +1 caster level.

When you are casting an evil spell you'll be one level up for casting that spell. Thing is the rules for Animate Dead keep track of you long after you are done casting the instantaneous spell. This might be reading a little too literally for some, but there definitely are grounds for this DM's reading.

Hmm...I can see that, but still. The animate dead spell is self-containing: even though it is instantaneous duration, it sets aside its own pool limiting future castings and how much you can control. Not part of an existing pool of HD of undead, such as from Rebuke Undead, but its own individual pool, that is effectively being constantly "checked" to see if any previous undead are released from your control, triggered by creating too many in future castings. While the creation may be instant, the control is indisputably ongoing (and clearly magical in nature, unless you'd care to argue otherwise ). So, I'd allow it.

 

[frankthedm]

Where this interpretation can get wonky is dealing with other means of affecting casting level, such as Death Knell or a Bead of Karma.

Karma beads have a similar wording to the evil domain. "Wearer casts his spells at +4 caster level. Effect lasts 10 minutes."

Death Knell has noticeably differing text for its effects, though it also has more room to describe the effect. Whether this is an intentional difference or only different because of space limitation is going to be the DM's call.

Death Knell :: d20srd.org
Additionally, your effective caster level goes up by +1, improving spell effects dependent on caster level. (This increase in effective caster level does not grant you access to more spells.)

also, even if Death Knell works for this, that caster level boost is temporary. a Caster may wind up surrounded by more undead than they can control once the effect wears off.