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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 717050" data-attributes="member: 4937">DrNuncheon: No, but a suit of full plate took a team of skilled craftsman an entire year to forge, so I think it is safe to say that they did have some items of extraordinary value which offer good corralaries to magic items.  To a certain extent the whole notion of magic item is grounded in the elaborate creation of those very items.The description of fire finger is another red herring.  If you think it harms the atmosphere of the game, it doesn't justify allowing other things that harm the atmosphere of the game; it justifies changing the description of fire finger.Magic items not wearing out in some form or the other is an awful big assumption, and one that simply isn't true in my campaign, wasn't at all true in 1st edition, and is only arguably true in 3rd edition.We could argue for ages about how many magic objects a given set of assumptions indicate should exist in the world.  I doubt we could even agree on assumptions.  About the only thing we can agree on is that the commonality of magic items in the world is much more justified by 3rd edition creation rules than it was for 1st edition's rather heavy handed item creation rules.   What level of commonality either indicates is a much more difficult subject."Does having a swordsmith kill the value of taking Craft (weaponsmith)? Does having a livery stable kill the value of putting ranks in Handle Animal?"Well, yes, it does.  How many players do you have taking alot of ranks in Craft skills?  How many players do you have taking alot of ranks in Handle Animal?  Isn't this because the players assume that there will be craftsman around to handle such 'mundane' tasks for them?   Given thier limited skill points, won't most players choose to put the skills somewhere 'useful' if they know that they can always contract a master craftsman to do the job for them?  Aren't craft skills normally only taken for 'RP purposes'? Now, suppose you tell the PC's that you will be running a stone age/early copper age campaign.  No cities.  Very few craftsman.    No merchants at all.  Metalsmiths and bowyers are extremely rare, and there are perhaps none within a months journey of the PC's starting location unless the PC's have such skills themselves.  Won't this VASTLY increase the utility of craft skills.  In fact, I dare say in such a situation craft skills would be the most important skills a PC could have.   By a similar parallel, a DM that makes a custom item readily available has made the decision to relagate item creation feats to a position of secondary importance - to the extent that I think few spell casters will bother with them.  If you know you can readily by miscellaneous magic items that you desire, why bother spending a feat on it?  Why bother spending your own precious XP?  Unless, it is for 'rp purposes'</blockquote>

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