D&D 5E Another Against the Giants question (spoiler)

[cthulhu42]

I've been reading through the module and recently came across the Empyrean NPC that could very well join the party after they free him.

This guy seem... tough! Like, kind of ridiculously so.

I'm already tweaking the adventure just a touch to ramp up the difficulty, but with this titan joining the party it seems like they'll have a huge advantage.

Those of you who have run this mod, what was your experience with him? Did you have him join up with the party, and if so, was he needed? Do you think your group could have done fine without him, or was he necessary? If he did join the party, did he steal the spotlight?

He seems like an interesting NPC and potential ally for a party, so I wouldn't mind that. I was thinking about putting him in later, toward the very end. Maybe he'd be a nice help vs the dragon?

Thoughts?

 

[cthulhu42]

I'm gonna bump this once.

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[Prakriti]

If you're using traditional XP, then remember that NPCs take an equal share. Explain this to your players beforehand and it might be enough to steer them away. Also, NPC companions usually want an equal share of the treasure, which is another sticking point for many groups.

Then again, an empyrean might want more than just treasure. He might want one of the characters to enter his service for a month or a year, or help constructing a temple. Whatever the case may be, try to balance the cost with the reward.

 

[cthulhu42]

If you're using traditional XP, then remember that NPCs take an equal share. Explain this to your players beforehand and it might be enough to steer them away. Also, NPC companions usually want an equal share of the treasure, which is another sticking point for many groups.

Then again, an empyrean might want more than just treasure. He might want one of the characters to enter his service for a month or a year, or help constructing a temple. Whatever the case may be, try to balance the cost with the reward.

The xp/gold split isn't really the issue. Besides, that's kind of a meta thing. The Empyrian is a prisoner of the giants and the PCs are good, so if they run across him they'd definitely free him. It's not like they'd owe him anything. Quite the contrary, actually.

I'm mainly worried that he's over powered and will tip the scales in the party's favor too dramatically.

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[Wiseblood]

Cut off his hand. Or blind him. That should sort him out. Then he can join and maybe not be so great and still be memorable.

 

[cthulhu42]

Cut off his hand. Or blind him. That should sort him out. Then he can join and maybe not be so great and still be memorable.

Hmmm. Maybe. But by the time they find him our cleric will probably be able to cast Regenerate.

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[Croesus]

I've been reading through the module and recently came across the Empyrean NPC that could very well join the party after they free him.

This guy seem... tough! Like, kind of ridiculously so.

I'm already tweaking the adventure just a touch to ramp up the difficulty, but with this titan joining the party it seems like they'll have a huge advantage.

Those of you who have run this mod, what was your experience with him? Did you have him join up with the party, and if so, was he needed? Do you think your group could have done fine without him, or was he necessary? If he did join the party, did he steal the spotlight?

He seems like an interesting NPC and potential ally for a party, so I wouldn't mind that. I was thinking about putting him in later, toward the very end. Maybe he'd be a nice help vs the dragon?

Thoughts?

I think it comes down to how many PCs are in the party. If it's just four, they're going to need NPC help. If it's six or more, then probably not.

I ran a comparison when TftYP came out and I believe the new giants modules cut the number/power of opponents by roughly 30% from the originals. (It's not an apples to apples comparison, as some creatures were replaced with weaker ones, so raw numbers only get us so far.) However, fire giants are roughly 3x more powerful in 5E - they average 3 times as many hit points, and average almost 3 times as much damage per round. And even with reduced numbers, there are still a heck of lot of them. I expect a small party will quickly run through its resources, unless they are very lucky and/or very good at avoiding combat.

So, it comes down to the characters going through the module, how many, how strong.

Option 1) If it turns out he's needed, no problem - he joins them.

Option 2) If he's not needed, but you want him as an NPC, then he's been cursed. His hit point maximum is half, his damage is half, no special abilities. To break the curse he needs to drink dragon blood, or maybe slay the person who cursed him (Eclavdra, Nedelyne, or the Jarl).

Option 3) If he's not needed, then he can conveniently find "his ring" on the slain jailer, a ring that just happens to allow him to teleport back to his keep, from which he's been gone too long and can't take time to help the party, but hey, they did rescue him, so if they ever visit his home, he'd be happy to wine and dine them, maybe even providing them with a unique reward, maybe some information they need, well, gotta go, good luck, have fun storming the castle...

 

[Shadowdweller00]

If you're worried about it, you're free as DM to decide that the NPC can't or won't join the PCs. Maybe he has urgent things he needs to attend to elsewhere. Maybe he's been mistreated for so long that he has lasting injuries. Or maybe he promises to intercede once (or a couple times) before taking off.

 

[cthulhu42]

If you're worried about it, you're free as DM to decide that the NPC can't or won't join the PCs. Maybe he has urgent things he needs to attend to elsewhere. Maybe he's been mistreated for so long that he has lasting injuries. Or maybe he promises to intercede once (or a couple times) before taking off.

Yep, very true. I was just wondering if anyone had any real play experience with this.

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