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Another Deadly Session, and It's Getting Old
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<blockquote data-quote="!DWolf" data-source="post: 8102529" data-attributes="member: 7026314"><p>Warning: this is going to be long . </p><p></p><p>Okay first I would like frame this post with <a href="https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/43568/roleplaying-games/game-structures-addendum-system-matters" target="_blank">this</a> excellent article from The Alexandrian (as pointed out by kenada).</p><p></p><p>Second I would like to define some terms.</p><p></p><p><strong>Stream-of-combats</strong> style games expect the characters to run a set number of combats in a row. No individual combat is much of a challenge, only a sequence of them, so creative precombat tactics are de-emphasized as they are not needed. The game structure is combat, reset, combat, reset, etc.. Games like D&D 4e and 5e; and pathfinder 1e lens themselves to this kind of play (a very big clue is that they list the number of combats that should be in the stream).</p><p></p><p><strong> Asymmetrical-Combat </strong> games on the other hand, have deadly combats and creative tactics to avoid or trivialize them are emphasized. The game structure is much less formulaic: many would prefer no combat at all. Games like Shadowrun (mirrorshades style), Eclipse Phase, Chronicles of Darkness, and early D&D are this style of game. Notably none of these systems indicate how many combats should be in the stream - because ideally there is no stream. </p><p></p><p>Pathfinder 2e can be played either way though it is more heavily geared towards Asymmetrical-Combat and those playing in Stream-of-combat mode won’t use all the features (or find them annoying).</p><p></p><p>The problem you are having is that you are trying to play Stream-of-combats style in an adventure that is setup for Asymmetrical-combat and the adventure writers didn’t mention this to you because to them it is obvious (since that is what hex-crawls traditionally are). Giving an analogy from a different system, Shadowrun, you are doing runs against AAA tier megacorps by barging into buildings with guns drawn and getting smacked down by corpsec backed by HTR teams and trying to figure out why everyone keeps dying on runs. </p><p></p><p>Side note: this incidentally is what made Kingmaker 1e so easy - it was trying to do asymmetrical-combat in a system heavily geared for stream-of-combats.</p><p></p><p>So now that we have the problem we need to find the solution. And there are two: either modify the adventure to make it more stream-of-combats or modify your playstyle to make it more in-line with Asymmetrical-Combat.</p><p></p><p>From your post in the other thread: </p><p></p><p>I assume you want to do the latter? I can help you with that. The key is to focus on some of the fundamentals of encounters: most especially foreshadowing and player agency. Let me give you an example:</p><p></p><p>Consider the following “random” encounters: </p><p>1. A hill giant crashes out of the brush and attacks the party. Roll initiative. Combat ensues.</p><p>2. The party comes across a wagon that has been smashed, the horses are dead, and the whole thing reeks of wine. There are large humanoid tracks leading away into the forest and a pained, whimpering sound is coming from just inside the forest on the other side. What does the party do? I can’t tell you because in this scenario the players have agency: they can follow the tracks or check out the whimpering to find the badly injured wine merchant in the forest. Or maybe they just shrug and continue on. Also note that the hill giant is clearly foreshadowed. It is not a surprise: there are multiple ways they can learn what they are up against (identity the tracks, talk to the merchant, stealthy follow the tracks and see the drunken giant, etc.)</p><p></p><p>(To be continued in my next post, hopefully this doesn’t come across as too preachy)</p><p></p><p>Edit: typos</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="!DWolf, post: 8102529, member: 7026314"] Warning: this is going to be long . Okay first I would like frame this post with [URL='https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/43568/roleplaying-games/game-structures-addendum-system-matters']this[/url] excellent article from The Alexandrian (as pointed out by kenada). Second I would like to define some terms. [b]Stream-of-combats[/b] style games expect the characters to run a set number of combats in a row. No individual combat is much of a challenge, only a sequence of them, so creative precombat tactics are de-emphasized as they are not needed. The game structure is combat, reset, combat, reset, etc.. Games like D&D 4e and 5e; and pathfinder 1e lens themselves to this kind of play (a very big clue is that they list the number of combats that should be in the stream). [b] Asymmetrical-Combat [/b] games on the other hand, have deadly combats and creative tactics to avoid or trivialize them are emphasized. The game structure is much less formulaic: many would prefer no combat at all. Games like Shadowrun (mirrorshades style), Eclipse Phase, Chronicles of Darkness, and early D&D are this style of game. Notably none of these systems indicate how many combats should be in the stream - because ideally there is no stream. Pathfinder 2e can be played either way though it is more heavily geared towards Asymmetrical-Combat and those playing in Stream-of-combat mode won’t use all the features (or find them annoying). The problem you are having is that you are trying to play Stream-of-combats style in an adventure that is setup for Asymmetrical-combat and the adventure writers didn’t mention this to you because to them it is obvious (since that is what hex-crawls traditionally are). Giving an analogy from a different system, Shadowrun, you are doing runs against AAA tier megacorps by barging into buildings with guns drawn and getting smacked down by corpsec backed by HTR teams and trying to figure out why everyone keeps dying on runs. Side note: this incidentally is what made Kingmaker 1e so easy - it was trying to do asymmetrical-combat in a system heavily geared for stream-of-combats. So now that we have the problem we need to find the solution. And there are two: either modify the adventure to make it more stream-of-combats or modify your playstyle to make it more in-line with Asymmetrical-Combat. From your post in the other thread: I assume you want to do the latter? I can help you with that. The key is to focus on some of the fundamentals of encounters: most especially foreshadowing and player agency. Let me give you an example: Consider the following “random” encounters: 1. A hill giant crashes out of the brush and attacks the party. Roll initiative. Combat ensues. 2. The party comes across a wagon that has been smashed, the horses are dead, and the whole thing reeks of wine. There are large humanoid tracks leading away into the forest and a pained, whimpering sound is coming from just inside the forest on the other side. What does the party do? I can’t tell you because in this scenario the players have agency: they can follow the tracks or check out the whimpering to find the badly injured wine merchant in the forest. Or maybe they just shrug and continue on. Also note that the hill giant is clearly foreshadowed. It is not a surprise: there are multiple ways they can learn what they are up against (identity the tracks, talk to the merchant, stealthy follow the tracks and see the drunken giant, etc.) (To be continued in my next post, hopefully this doesn’t come across as too preachy) Edit: typos [/QUOTE]
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