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Another Deadly Session, and It's Getting Old
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 8102774" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>As an addendum to my earlier post:</p><p></p><p>Yes, I probably come across as viewing class selection from a coldly calculating utilitarian viewpoint. Which can feel alien when you're just itching to play a Rogue.</p><p></p><p>However, I posit that you don't have to take this view in a game like 5E. </p><p></p><p>If there is a 5E feat that, say, gives you advantage on trap-disablin' that is a substantial benefit. </p><p></p><p>A substantial benefit is what you need to rationalize playing a low-AC medium-hp character on the frontlines. It helps that everybody's chances of success are good to begin with (so you go from good to awesome at your job) and that traps are seldom killers in the first place.</p><p></p><p>Now contrast this with Pathfinder 2. Since both traps and monsters are very deadly, you need a very good reason for playing anything less that the most sturdy classes. </p><p></p><p>And getting <a href="https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=551" target="_blank">a +1 bonus at level 1</a> <strong>ain't it</strong>. (The bonus eventually being increased to +2, and you getting that crappy reroll at level 8 I mentioned earlier, is <strong>still not it</strong>.)</p><p></p><p>It doesn't help that the basic step of trapfinding is done by Perception, something everybody gets in this game. And that Thievery is just a skill that again everybody can take.</p><p></p><p>So tell me again why I should be playing a trap-expert Rogue when I could be nearly as good playing a trap-expert Barbarian...?</p><p></p><p>Point here: in most D&D games you don't need to take the utilitarian view, since the devs have remembered to give each class the tools they need to justify their existence, and because the game is friendly enough that "everybody can be a hero". </p><p></p><p>In sharp contrast, Pathfinder 2 (at least when playing official APs) strongly encourage you to make the very best adventurer you can. There, the notion of bringing along a thief "because it's fun" is much less compelling, since a thief doesn't bring enough extra thiefin' to the table.</p><p></p><p>(Luckily Rogues in PF2 remain viable since they're competent fighters. I'm talking about how the CRB introduces Rogues as "You’re a great asset,</p><p>since you can disable traps" as if that made you special in any way)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 8102774, member: 12731"] As an addendum to my earlier post: Yes, I probably come across as viewing class selection from a coldly calculating utilitarian viewpoint. Which can feel alien when you're just itching to play a Rogue. However, I posit that you don't have to take this view in a game like 5E. If there is a 5E feat that, say, gives you advantage on trap-disablin' that is a substantial benefit. A substantial benefit is what you need to rationalize playing a low-AC medium-hp character on the frontlines. It helps that everybody's chances of success are good to begin with (so you go from good to awesome at your job) and that traps are seldom killers in the first place. Now contrast this with Pathfinder 2. Since both traps and monsters are very deadly, you need a very good reason for playing anything less that the most sturdy classes. And getting [URL='https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=551']a +1 bonus at level 1[/URL] [B]ain't it[/B]. (The bonus eventually being increased to +2, and you getting that crappy reroll at level 8 I mentioned earlier, is [B]still not it[/B].) It doesn't help that the basic step of trapfinding is done by Perception, something everybody gets in this game. And that Thievery is just a skill that again everybody can take. So tell me again why I should be playing a trap-expert Rogue when I could be nearly as good playing a trap-expert Barbarian...? Point here: in most D&D games you don't need to take the utilitarian view, since the devs have remembered to give each class the tools they need to justify their existence, and because the game is friendly enough that "everybody can be a hero". In sharp contrast, Pathfinder 2 (at least when playing official APs) strongly encourage you to make the very best adventurer you can. There, the notion of bringing along a thief "because it's fun" is much less compelling, since a thief doesn't bring enough extra thiefin' to the table. (Luckily Rogues in PF2 remain viable since they're competent fighters. I'm talking about how the CRB introduces Rogues as "You’re a great asset, since you can disable traps" as if that made you special in any way) [/QUOTE]
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