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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kenada" data-source="post: 8108184" data-attributes="member: 70468">My PCs all Avoid Notice and then say: I want to roll Perception instead because it’s better, and I respond: then you’re not going to be very hidden, are you? <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="😒" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f612.png" title="Unamused face    :unamused:" data-shortname=":unamused:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" />It’s worded awkwardly, but if you are <a href="http://2e.aonprd.com/Conditions.aspx?ID=22" target="_blank">hidden</a>, the target is flat-footed to you.I don’t think fighting necessarily starts, but that sounds about right. If the party is trying to stage an ambush, you wouldn’t start the fight when the ambush sprung by when the enemy comes into the scene. You’d have them do their thing unaware of the ambush, and then the PCs would spring the ambush on the designated signal. Yep. I think in most other games you’d e.g., start when the above ambush sprung. On one hand, that makes sense given the absence of a discrete surprise round. On the other, it potentially tips the PCs off that an encounter is coming even though nothing is on screen yet. You could do secret Initiative checks in that situation, but that’s definitely not the norm in PF2.I guess you could have them roll initiative at random times just to keep them on their toes. “So you go to use the chamber pot, roll initiative.” Have them believing all the chamber pots are mimics in short order. <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="😈" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f608.png" title="Smiling face with horns    :smiling_imp:" data-shortname=":smiling_imp:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" />If the PCs know or suspect there are monsters in the next room, they can Avoid Notice as they approach. When the encounter starts, everyone Delays but the slowest one in the initiative order, who kicks in the door. The rest of the party returns to the initiative order at the end of the kicker’s turn, and they rush inside to beat up the monsters for their treasure.I swear I can remember having arguments over whether you got surprise when kicking in the door. Did Paizo accidentally (almost*) fix it? <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="🤔" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f914.png" title="Thinking face    :thinking:" data-shortname=":thinking:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" />* The asterisk is because you can only return to the initiative order at the end of someone’s turn, so you can’t guarantee a bad enough result that you go after all the monsters (and consequently get a ‘free’ turn beating them up). If they survive, they get to return the favor, but the party should be able to drop a creature or two and tilt things in their favor. Also, extensive footnotes are bad for jokes.</blockquote>

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