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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Henry" data-source="post: 4244565" data-attributes="member: 158">There's one thing that bugs me:*People complain that 4e is not a good game*"Why are you complaining about a game you haven't seen?*People play the DDXP demo and offer criticism*"That's like criticizing a movie trailer!"*People play Keep on the Shadowfell and criticize 4e*"You still haven't seen enough to critique it!"*People critique the game with the full rules*"Did you even really read the rules? I bet you weren't running them right!"I haven't seen the last one yet, but I'm fully expecting to.My question is: If you don't critique with even the full rules, when CAN you critique? I would argue that if people don't like parts of 4e, or even any of it, by Keep on the Shadowfell, then they stand a very good and valid chance of not liking the game. The first two instances I can sympathize with; the DDXP still wasn't enough to get the full experience.However, having seen the rough stages of Keep on the Shadowfell (not the full module yet), and knowing where they planned to go with it, what it intended to introduce, it's as close to playing the first three levels of D&D 4 as you're going to get; it's not some half-approximation of the first three levels, it's at the least 90% the same. If it can't give you a good idea of the rules, then nothing, not even the full rules, will do a lot better. The full rules might help a fence-straddler, but it's not going to be radically different from what is in the rules.That said, I liked the review, Haakon. I honestly think it's a game system that even grognards of 1e could probably live with, if they got to know it without condemning it automatically, due to its many elements that hearken back to earlier editions of the game. Even more, it's more modular than 3e in practice, from what I can tell, and you can fiddle with some very basic conventions like healing surges without destroying everything.</blockquote>

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