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<blockquote data-quote="Bayuer" data-source="post: 4735419" data-attributes="member: 61817">MONSTERS MATH[code]14+lv&nbsp; &nbsp; 12+lvl&nbsp; &nbsp; 5+lvl&nbsp; &nbsp; 3+lvl&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; AC&nbsp; &nbsp; DEF&nbsp; &nbsp; vs.AC&nbsp; &nbsp; vs.DEF&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 15&nbsp; &nbsp; 13&nbsp; &nbsp; _6&nbsp; &nbsp; _4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; _7&nbsp; &nbsp; _5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 17&nbsp; &nbsp; 15&nbsp; &nbsp; _8&nbsp; &nbsp; _6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; _9&nbsp; &nbsp; _7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; 17&nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; _8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp; _9&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 21&nbsp; &nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 22&nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 13&nbsp; &nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; 21&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 24&nbsp; &nbsp; 22&nbsp; &nbsp; 15&nbsp; &nbsp; 13&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 25&nbsp; &nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 26&nbsp; &nbsp; 24&nbsp; &nbsp; 17&nbsp; &nbsp; 15&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 27&nbsp; &nbsp; 25&nbsp; &nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 28&nbsp; &nbsp; 26&nbsp; &nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; 17&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 29&nbsp; &nbsp; 27&nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 30&nbsp; &nbsp; 28&nbsp; &nbsp; 21&nbsp; &nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 31&nbsp; &nbsp; 29&nbsp; &nbsp; 22&nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 32&nbsp; &nbsp; 30&nbsp; &nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; 21&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 33&nbsp; &nbsp; 31&nbsp; &nbsp; 24&nbsp; &nbsp; 22&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 34&nbsp; &nbsp; 32&nbsp; &nbsp; 25&nbsp; &nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 35&nbsp; &nbsp; 33&nbsp; &nbsp; 26&nbsp; &nbsp; 24&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 36&nbsp; &nbsp; 34&nbsp; &nbsp; 27&nbsp; &nbsp; 25&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 37&nbsp; &nbsp; 35&nbsp; &nbsp; 28&nbsp; &nbsp; 26&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 38&nbsp; &nbsp; 36&nbsp; &nbsp; 29&nbsp; &nbsp; 27&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 39&nbsp; &nbsp; 37&nbsp; &nbsp; 30&nbsp; &nbsp; 28&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 40&nbsp; &nbsp; 38&nbsp; &nbsp; 31&nbsp; &nbsp; 29&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 41&nbsp; &nbsp; 39&nbsp; &nbsp; 32&nbsp; &nbsp; 30&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 42&nbsp; &nbsp; 40&nbsp; &nbsp; 33&nbsp; &nbsp; 31&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 43&nbsp; &nbsp; 41&nbsp; &nbsp; 34&nbsp; &nbsp; 32&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 44&nbsp; &nbsp; 42&nbsp; &nbsp; 35&nbsp; &nbsp; 33[/code]Statistics taken from DMG p.184 (Skirmisher).Hitting DEF will be greater than the numbers showing. Lurker +1, Artilery, Soldier +2, only the Brute have -2 less to hit, than the numbers in table.PCs MATH[code]+4S(+2 prof)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +3Dex+Hide&nbsp; &nbsp; Plate&nbsp; &nbsp; +3 ABL&nbsp; &nbsp; +1 ABLvs.AC&nbsp; &nbsp; vs.DEF&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; AC(L)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; AC(H)&nbsp; &nbsp; DEF(M)&nbsp; &nbsp; DEF(L)_6&nbsp; &nbsp; _4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; 13&nbsp; &nbsp; 11_8&nbsp; &nbsp; _6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 15&nbsp; &nbsp; 13_8&nbsp; &nbsp; _6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 15&nbsp; &nbsp; 13_9&nbsp; &nbsp; _7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 21&nbsp; &nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; 14_9&nbsp; &nbsp; _7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 21&nbsp; &nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; 1410&nbsp; &nbsp; _8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 22&nbsp; &nbsp; 17&nbsp; &nbsp; 1511&nbsp; &nbsp; _9&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 21&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 24&nbsp; &nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; 1613&nbsp; &nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 25&nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 1713&nbsp; &nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 25&nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 1714&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 24&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 26&nbsp; &nbsp; 21&nbsp; &nbsp; 1814&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 24&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 26&nbsp; &nbsp; 21&nbsp; &nbsp; 1816&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 26&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 29&nbsp; &nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; 2016&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 26&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 29&nbsp; &nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; 2018&nbsp; &nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 28&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 30&nbsp; &nbsp; 25&nbsp; &nbsp; 2118&nbsp; &nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 28&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 31&nbsp; &nbsp; 25&nbsp; &nbsp; 2119&nbsp; &nbsp; 17&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 29&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 32&nbsp; &nbsp; 26&nbsp; &nbsp; 2220&nbsp; &nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 30&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 34&nbsp; &nbsp; 27&nbsp; &nbsp; 2321&nbsp; &nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 31&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 35&nbsp; &nbsp; 28&nbsp; &nbsp; 2421&nbsp; &nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 31&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 35&nbsp; &nbsp; 28&nbsp; &nbsp; 2422&nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 32&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 36&nbsp; &nbsp; 29&nbsp; &nbsp; 2523&nbsp; &nbsp; 21&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 33&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 36&nbsp; &nbsp; 30&nbsp; &nbsp; 2625&nbsp; &nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 36&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 39&nbsp; &nbsp; 32&nbsp; &nbsp; 2825&nbsp; &nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 36&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 39&nbsp; &nbsp; 32&nbsp; &nbsp; 2826&nbsp; &nbsp; 24&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 37&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 40&nbsp; &nbsp; 33&nbsp; &nbsp; 2926&nbsp; &nbsp; 24&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 37&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 40&nbsp; &nbsp; 33&nbsp; &nbsp; 2927&nbsp; &nbsp; 25&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 38&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 41&nbsp; &nbsp; 34&nbsp; &nbsp; 3028&nbsp; &nbsp; 26&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 39&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 42&nbsp; &nbsp; 35&nbsp; &nbsp; 3130&nbsp; &nbsp; 28&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 41&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 43&nbsp; &nbsp; 37&nbsp; &nbsp; 3230&nbsp; &nbsp; 28&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 41&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 43&nbsp; &nbsp; 37&nbsp; &nbsp; 3231&nbsp; &nbsp; 29&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 42&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 44&nbsp; &nbsp; 38&nbsp; &nbsp; 33AC(L) - Light ArmorAC(H)- Heavy ArmorDEF(M)- DEF MiddleDEF(L) - DEF Lowest[/code]The key atribute is rainsing at 8,14,21,28 (full +1)With DEF low it only rises on level 21, couse we rise primary and secondary stats.Enchament bonus goes on level 2,7,12,17,22,27.Hide Armor gives masterwork +1 on level 22.What all this number gives to us?HITTING THE MONSTERS ACOn heroic we have adventage of +1 to hit, that comes to +0 at the end of heroic tier.On paragon the gap is showing making to hit at -1 to -2 at the end of tier.On epic it comes from -2 to -3 at the end of tier.HITTING THE MONSTER DEFIt's the same as above.---So the higher level we are, the harder time we have hitting the monsters. If we take max. stats that will make our hit at +1/+2 higer; +1 on DEF. But then our DEF will be drastically low.---HITTING THE PLAYERS AC (LIGHT ARMOR)On heroic monster have adventage of +1 to +0, so it's fair.On paragon it's from +2 to +3 at the end of tier.On epic it goes to +3 at the end, with single boost at the beginnig of tier to +1.HITTING THE PLAYERS AC (HEAVY ARMOR)The monster has disadventage of -1 (sometimes even -2).On paragon this continues in the same way.On epic it jump from -1 to +1 at the end of tier.---So if we don't max our light armor AC we will be hit offten. We will probably start with 18 (+4) in our light armor stat and if we go for light armor or defensive weapon we will have the AC compared to high armor AC so that's not bad. Remeber that there's also Armor Specialization that is nice for Light Armor and not so needed for Heavy armor.---HITTING THE PLAYERS DEFOur middle DEF is like this.On heroic monster have adventage of +1 to +2 at the end of tier.On paragon it jumps to +3 and it ends at +4.On epic it then rise to +5 at the end of tier.Our lowest DEF.Heroic from +3 to +5.Paragon from +5 to +8.Epic from +8 to +10 (monster miss only when he rolls 1 on die!)But here's come the trick. Monster that usualy attack DEF are Artilleries whose hit is +2 more that I take for this calculation. What with our best DEF. It wil be +3/+4 higher than mid DEF (+2 class and 18 in atribute).Heroic goes with monster disadventage from -2/-1.Paragon from +0 to +1.Epic will be +1 to +2.---So we can't max our PCs. That's not possible and I think it's ok, but the gaps are too large. Even our best DEF is easy to be hit, and on epic nasty effects like domination or stunn comes into play. Our lowest DEF is instant kill for us.---Solution?Give players +1 to attacks and defenced (other than AC) on paragon tier, this bonus will incrase to +2 on epic tier. Only feat that will be banned will be Weapon/Implement Expertise. Epic DEF feats are needed if you want to make your lowest/middle def more optimal. Also players gain for free one Epic defense feat (Epic Wiil/Reflex/Fortitude). That will make your lowest DEF at +4 (of monster adventage) - he must roll 6 on die to hit. This also will give options to players which defense feats to take and none will be banned.Another approch is to just give players feats for free. One Weapon/Implement Expertise on 5 lvl. Paragons Defenses at 11 level (or another paragon defense feat). Robust Defenses (or any other epic defense feat) and one Epic FRW feat at epic tier. That will make the math work as intended (well almost as intended) and will be easy to make with Character Builder.So what do you think? Will it be the final solution for math problems?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bayuer, post: 4735419, member: 61817"] MONSTERS MATH [code]14+lv 12+lvl 5+lvl 3+lvl AC DEF vs.AC vs.DEF 15 13 _6 _4 16 14 _7 _5 17 15 _8 _6 18 16 _9 _7 19 17 10 _8 20 18 11 _9 21 19 12 10 22 20 13 11 23 21 14 12 24 22 15 13 25 23 16 14 26 24 17 15 27 25 18 16 28 26 19 17 29 27 20 18 30 28 21 19 31 29 22 20 32 30 23 21 33 31 24 22 34 32 25 23 35 33 26 24 36 34 27 25 37 35 28 26 38 36 29 27 39 37 30 28 40 38 31 29 41 39 32 30 42 40 33 31 43 41 34 32 44 42 35 33[/code] Statistics taken from DMG p.184 (Skirmisher). Hitting DEF will be greater than the numbers showing. Lurker +1, Artilery, Soldier +2, only the Brute have -2 less to hit, than the numbers in table. PCs MATH [code] +4S(+2 prof) +3Dex+Hide Plate +3 ABL +1 ABL vs.AC vs.DEF AC(L) AC(H) DEF(M) DEF(L) _6 _4 16 18 13 11 _8 _6 18 20 15 13 _8 _6 18 20 15 13 _9 _7 19 21 16 14 _9 _7 19 21 16 14 10 _8 20 22 17 15 11 _9 21 24 18 16 13 11 23 25 20 17 13 11 23 25 20 17 14 12 24 26 21 18 14 12 24 26 21 18 16 14 26 29 23 20 16 14 26 29 23 20 18 16 28 30 25 21 18 16 28 31 25 21 19 17 29 32 26 22 20 18 30 34 27 23 21 19 31 35 28 24 21 19 31 35 28 24 22 20 32 36 29 25 23 21 33 36 30 26 25 23 36 39 32 28 25 23 36 39 32 28 26 24 37 40 33 29 26 24 37 40 33 29 27 25 38 41 34 30 28 26 39 42 35 31 30 28 41 43 37 32 30 28 41 43 37 32 31 29 42 44 38 33 AC(L) - Light Armor AC(H)- Heavy Armor DEF(M)- DEF Middle DEF(L) - DEF Lowest [/code] The key atribute is rainsing at 8,14,21,28 (full +1) With DEF low it only rises on level 21, couse we rise primary and secondary stats. Enchament bonus goes on level 2,7,12,17,22,27. Hide Armor gives masterwork +1 on level 22. What all this number gives to us? HITTING THE MONSTERS AC On heroic we have adventage of +1 to hit, that comes to +0 at the end of heroic tier. On paragon the gap is showing making to hit at -1 to -2 at the end of tier. On epic it comes from -2 to -3 at the end of tier. HITTING THE MONSTER DEF It's the same as above. --- So the higher level we are, the harder time we have hitting the monsters. If we take max. stats that will make our hit at +1/+2 higer; +1 on DEF. But then our DEF will be drastically low. --- HITTING THE PLAYERS AC (LIGHT ARMOR) On heroic monster have adventage of +1 to +0, so it's fair. On paragon it's from +2 to +3 at the end of tier. On epic it goes to +3 at the end, with single boost at the beginnig of tier to +1. HITTING THE PLAYERS AC (HEAVY ARMOR) The monster has disadventage of -1 (sometimes even -2). On paragon this continues in the same way. On epic it jump from -1 to +1 at the end of tier. --- So if we don't max our light armor AC we will be hit offten. We will probably start with 18 (+4) in our light armor stat and if we go for light armor or defensive weapon we will have the AC compared to high armor AC so that's not bad. Remeber that there's also Armor Specialization that is nice for Light Armor and not so needed for Heavy armor. --- HITTING THE PLAYERS DEF Our middle DEF is like this. On heroic monster have adventage of +1 to +2 at the end of tier. On paragon it jumps to +3 and it ends at +4. On epic it then rise to +5 at the end of tier. Our lowest DEF. Heroic from +3 to +5. Paragon from +5 to +8. Epic from +8 to +10 (monster miss only when he rolls 1 on die!) But here's come the trick. Monster that usualy attack DEF are Artilleries whose hit is +2 more that I take for this calculation. What with our best DEF. It wil be +3/+4 higher than mid DEF (+2 class and 18 in atribute). Heroic goes with monster disadventage from -2/-1. Paragon from +0 to +1. Epic will be +1 to +2. --- So we can't max our PCs. That's not possible and I think it's ok, but the gaps are too large. Even our best DEF is easy to be hit, and on epic nasty effects like domination or stunn comes into play. Our lowest DEF is instant kill for us. --- Solution? Give players +1 to attacks and defenced (other than AC) on paragon tier, this bonus will incrase to +2 on epic tier. Only feat that will be banned will be Weapon/Implement Expertise. Epic DEF feats are needed if you want to make your lowest/middle def more optimal. Also players gain for free one Epic defense feat (Epic Wiil/Reflex/Fortitude). That will make your lowest DEF at +4 (of monster adventage) - he must roll 6 on die to hit. This also will give options to players which defense feats to take and none will be banned. Another approch is to just give players feats for free. One Weapon/Implement Expertise on 5 lvl. Paragons Defenses at 11 level (or another paragon defense feat). Robust Defenses (or any other epic defense feat) and one Epic FRW feat at epic tier. That will make the math work as intended (well almost as intended) and will be easy to make with Character Builder. So what do you think? Will it be the final solution for math problems? [/QUOTE]

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