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Another possible influence on 4e - CCGs
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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 7971028" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>Yes. And for 3E as well, MtG was cited as a specific inspiration. I don't think there's any doubt at all that CCGs influenced 4E's design, people have explained well in this thread. Everything post-WotC has that going on. I honestly feel like some RPGs could use more CCG influence when it comes to clarity.</p><p></p><p>[USER=4881]@Sabathius42[/USER] - That's true but it's also true for 3E (and 5E, as not everything that can't be tripped is immune to prone, which would make it immune to trip), where they failed to make an exception from the trip rules for some creature that obviously couldn't be tripped <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> That's where I bumped into it first.</p><p></p><p>There's a good bit on it here: <a href="http://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com/2017/02/tripping-oozes-in-d-3e-versus-4e-versus.html" target="_blank">Tripping Oozes in D&D (3e versus 4e versus 5e)</a></p><p></p><p>Both clarified in FAQs, rather than the rules - 3.5E said "just don't allow it", 4E said "see if you can make something up that works". Either works. 4E is definitely more of a CCG-ish approach, though again the DM is there so he can go "Ehhhhh yeah that's not working to work...". I know I had to a few times! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> What I generally did in 4E (which was different to 3.XE when I DM'd), was give the player a chance to try to come up with a plausible explanation for how this was happening. A couple of times they just outright said "Yeah, I don't see any way, let's not apply that condition!" or the like, and many other times they came up with fantastic and fun explanations! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>I also never saw a PC cast Fireball in 4E. But I did see them set SO MUCH on fire oh my god. Half the adventures ended with something on fire, in large part due to the stunt rules.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 7971028, member: 18"] Yes. And for 3E as well, MtG was cited as a specific inspiration. I don't think there's any doubt at all that CCGs influenced 4E's design, people have explained well in this thread. Everything post-WotC has that going on. I honestly feel like some RPGs could use more CCG influence when it comes to clarity. [USER=4881]@Sabathius42[/USER] - That's true but it's also true for 3E (and 5E, as not everything that can't be tripped is immune to prone, which would make it immune to trip), where they failed to make an exception from the trip rules for some creature that obviously couldn't be tripped :) That's where I bumped into it first. There's a good bit on it here: [URL='http://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com/2017/02/tripping-oozes-in-d-3e-versus-4e-versus.html']Tripping Oozes in D&D (3e versus 4e versus 5e)[/URL] Both clarified in FAQs, rather than the rules - 3.5E said "just don't allow it", 4E said "see if you can make something up that works". Either works. 4E is definitely more of a CCG-ish approach, though again the DM is there so he can go "Ehhhhh yeah that's not working to work...". I know I had to a few times! :) What I generally did in 4E (which was different to 3.XE when I DM'd), was give the player a chance to try to come up with a plausible explanation for how this was happening. A couple of times they just outright said "Yeah, I don't see any way, let's not apply that condition!" or the like, and many other times they came up with fantastic and fun explanations! :) I also never saw a PC cast Fireball in 4E. But I did see them set SO MUCH on fire oh my god. Half the adventures ended with something on fire, in large part due to the stunt rules. [/QUOTE]
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