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Message: <blockquote data-quote="azarias" data-source="post: 4283525" data-attributes="member: 54755">Ptolemy -thats a good review. Well considered, well spoken.The point that interests me most is this: is 4th edition so targetted towards the new player that it lacks depth for the more experienced?You give an answer, and back it up pretty well. Me, I think the jury's still out. Yes, it is simple (rather pleasantly simple) to stat up a 1st level character. However, have you noticed threads here and there noting the difficulty of creating higher level PCs? Try one yourself. I'm currently tinkering with an Elven Cleric/Ranger with the heroic level multiclass feats. I think it might be possible to make paragon multiclassing work with this character (in fact, I think it may be intended for this combination to work well, given the number of Ranger powers that work off high Wisdom). It's tricky, though. The 4E designers made a lot of helping players avoid 'traps' in design, and essentially, since you can retrain, those traps are no longer permanent...however, to realise you need to retrain you need to get under the character's hood and understand how the engine works. That isn't nearly as easy at high level as it is at 1st.In essence, what I'm saying is this: 1st level seems an ideal and simpe starting point for new players. 15th level seems like it might be a more satisfying experience for experienced gamers. That would be neat, wouldn't it?The jury's still out on higher levels, really, but I would suggest that there may be enough meat on the new game to make higher level builds more satisfying. It's interesting to have a peek at the Character Optimisation boards over at Wizards/Gleemax in this regard. There is plenty of activity over there, and plenty of healthy disagreement. That suggests that high level 4E character building isn't nearly as simple as it seems.Finally, a point others have made elsewhere: it's not really fair play to compare the complexity of 4E as it is (bright and shiny and new) with that of 3.5 in its final incarnation. Yes, 3.5 had a wealth of simulationist world-building material, and if you can compare new to new (which is difficult) it may still seem the richer game. But 4E also has to handle being compared to late-era 3.5, with all its accumulated material.Or again, to boil it down: yes, we have no crocodiles. We do know that we'll have Primal classes in the PHB2, though: how many cookies do I win if we have animals in the MM2?</blockquote>

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