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<blockquote data-quote="theNater" data-source="post: 4283609" data-attributes="member: 62560">Never tried the warmage.&nbsp; Tried the sorcerer a couple of times, and it is better.I was just reading the cleric's full information earlier today.&nbsp; Have you seen the Divine Oracle paragon path?&nbsp; If your friend had built a cleric aiming for that, and picked up some of the divination rituals, he might have been able to develop the character he wanted while still being a force in combat.&nbsp; Sounds like good news to me.That sort of balance has often been part of the DM's job.&nbsp; 4th edition, possibly to make life easier on novice DMs, has moved that burden to the ruleset.&nbsp; That's another thing I like about the system, but I can see why it might not be to everyone's taste.When I look at the PHB, I see 8 classes with 2 suggested builds each and 8 races.&nbsp; That says 128 build options right off the bat, with the nice bonus that while few of them are super-powered, all of them are viable.&nbsp; Even if a Dragonborn Battle Cleric plays the same as a Halfling Battle Cleric, which I don't believe, we're looking at 16 distinct builds before we even try non-standard power selections(it's pretty easy to see which powers go with which builds, picking some powers from each build could give a different feel), paragon paths, epic destinies, and the multiclass feats.&nbsp; How big of an exploration space do you want in 317 pages?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="theNater, post: 4283609, member: 62560"] Never tried the warmage. Tried the sorcerer a couple of times, and it is better. I was just reading the cleric's full information earlier today. Have you seen the Divine Oracle paragon path? If your friend had built a cleric aiming for that, and picked up some of the divination rituals, he might have been able to develop the character he wanted while still being a force in combat. Sounds like good news to me. That sort of balance has often been part of the DM's job. 4th edition, possibly to make life easier on novice DMs, has moved that burden to the ruleset. That's another thing I like about the system, but I can see why it might not be to everyone's taste. When I look at the PHB, I see 8 classes with 2 suggested builds each and 8 races. That says 128 build options right off the bat, with the nice bonus that while few of them are super-powered, all of them are [B]viable[/B]. Even if a Dragonborn Battle Cleric plays the same as a Halfling Battle Cleric, which I don't believe, we're looking at 16 distinct builds before we even try non-standard power selections(it's pretty easy to see which powers go with which builds, picking some powers from each build could give a different feel), paragon paths, epic destinies, and the multiclass feats. How big of an exploration space do you want in 317 pages? [/QUOTE]

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