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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sylrae" data-source="post: 4284527" data-attributes="member: 48520">its only 317 pages because the dmg has been cut down to 221. the 3.5 dmg had 320 pages, and the 3.0 had 256. and the 2e AD&D dmg i have here has 256. the 3.0 players I have here is 286. thats a gain of 31 pages in the phb, and a loss of 99 pages from 3.5 dmg to 4e, or a loss of 35 from 3.0 to 4.0 in the dmg(I don't own a 3.5 players)which essentially means that, looking at just the players and the dmg, from 3.0 to 4.0 they cut out 5 pages. but from 3.5 to 4.0 thats more like 100 pages missing.If you look at the 3.0 phb (not even the more updated, and bigger 3.5) and just look at one class. lets go with fighter. There are at least a dozen ways to make the fightr based on which fighter feats you take, and thats just in the players. then for examples sake lets say there are a dozen ways to do the other classes too (barbarian, and rogue might be less, but liik at cleric domains, or wizard specialization. an average of 12 will fit our purposes, and is actually probably low.) theres 132 options. that's before you even look at races. multiply it by eight for 1056 options if you want to say different races = different builds.1056 is an acceptable number of choices. 128? nowhere even close.</blockquote>