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Message: <blockquote data-quote="VannATLC" data-source="post: 4285856" data-attributes="member: 60935">Seriously, I give up.4e is a framework for combat driven and encounter based resolution. That's what the rules are for.Everything else is up to the players, which is *exactly* what a good system should be.DND is a framework. Official and 3rd party Campaigns are a packaged product. Adventure Paths such as KoTS fit in the losely detailed 'default' setting. It enshrines no fluff, and allows a huge design space for 3rd party Campaign settings, as well as the traditional settings.They've fleshed out the basics of a world, for people who need examples on where to go.They have, deliberately, and consciously, reduced the system mastery components of the game. The vast amount of people do *not* enjoy it. They've recognised this. Magic is no less complex than it ever used to be. Individual class abilities are focused on the requirements of the game system.Rituals allow a design space for everything else. The vast amount of issues I've seen are essentially people complaining that it is a new game.Far too few of them seem to be solid complaints about the system itself. (And there are, at least, some reasonable complaints about that. Stalker0 has highlighted some important ones, for a start.)</blockquote>