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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sylrae" data-source="post: 4286491" data-attributes="member: 48520">geh. Monsters should have player stats. even the ones nobody will ever play. like the purple worm <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" /> what if I want my purple worm they players are fighting to have class levels? lol.I like your comparison of 4e and 3e. I'm thinking somewhere in between is the way to go.the higher hit points at 1st level is a good thing. everyone always wanted to start at level 3 to compensate for it in the 3e games I played, and none of them were newbies.group roles are a waste of my time. one time we had a party with 4 rogue like characters and a fighter. a <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />load of fun. Rogue, Rogue, Scout, Swashbuckler, Fighter. no casters, no clerics.we all got by with potions. hell even when we had clerics you had to look after yourself, cause the cleric usually only took 1-2 heals a day.and I'm looking into houseruling classless 4e. just grab the powers from any class. with 4e's modular design it shouldn't take too much tweaking. Just need to come up with a system for it. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />and not everyone in 3e went with optimized builds. I didnt give the players time to make optimized builds usually, and if they minmaxed, I'd intentionally play against their mins. they eventually stopped minmaxing and took the hint.if they went all combat, I'd throw them into social situations. etc.</blockquote>

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