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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 4411669" data-attributes="member: 1656">This can be generalised to "Can you take a triggered action if you cannot perceive the trigger?"  For example, can you use an Immediate Interrupt like Disruptive Strike if the enemy attacking your ally is invisible?  Will your readied action trigger if the trigger occurs around a corner from you?  Will your Heroic Surge trigger if you don't have Line of Sight to the ally within 5 squares who takes damage?My assumption is "They occur simultaneously" - can you give an example where there's a difference between "Hit first" and "Hit and Effect together"?Effect first could have consequences - for example, Feinting Flurry (Rogue 19) has a Hit (5W + Dex) and an Effect (penalty to defenses until the end of your next turn).  If the Effect is evaluated first, the penalty will apply to Feinting Flurry's Dex vs Will attack.  If the Hit is evaluated first, or Hit and Effect together, then the penalty won't apply.(On the other hand, support for "Hit first, Effect after" can be found in White Raven Strike (Warlord 9), where the Effect entry refers to the result of the Hit entry in the past tense ("If you dropped the target..."))-Hyp.</blockquote>