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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2970252" data-attributes="member: 2011">If conjuration is complete before it impacts a target, how does it target its target?Most other spells (tmk) fail in an AMF unless that they state otherwise within AMF or within the spell itself.If the Orb is non-magical, how does it auto-target its target without using magic? There is no ranged touch attack.If the Orb is magical or targeting with magic, how does it get through the AMF?Note: This does not state that such spells do not depend on magic for their targeting.Face it. The Orbs are screwy. The designers broke the rules when they created them and now they are an adjudication pain in the butt. For example, according to the rules you posted, the non-magical Orb of Magical Force hangs around forever, it cannot be dispelled, it has no way outside of some extremely limited magic to destroy it, and it has no hit points or hardness.The game has no extremely obvious way (there might be an obscure way like a Sphere of Annihilation, or a Fire Orb might be extinguished with a Gust of Wind, Pyrotechnics, Quench or some such) to get rid of Orbs, especially Force Orbs, left over from Orb spells.And how do these permanent Orbs maintain their shapes if they are made up of Sonic, Acid, Fire, or Cold? What is a Cold Orb? Is it cold air, or the magical essence of cold (held together in a non-magical way)? Or, do they lose their shapes and end up as blobs on the ground or on the bodies of their targets? Does the Fire Orb fly away because of its heat?Anytime a spell is that screwy, it is up to the DM to adjudicate outside of RAW and fix it. If the conjuration rules you quoted create basically indestructible orbs that cannot easily be gotten rid of, then that same rule should not be used for that, nor should it be used to allow Orbs to penetrate AMF spells. The DM should adjudicate with common sense. IMO.If you would not let an Acid Arrow to go through an AMF, you should not let an Acid Orb to go through an AMF. Screwy RAW should be ignored or corrected. Again, IMO.</blockquote>

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