Any advice on running a low-magic-item campaign?

[Valesin]

I am currently designing a campaign in which I would like to (significantly) lower the availability of magic items. It is going to have a moderate level of 'magic', but much of what will be available is going to be non-standard: incarnum, truename, binding, etc. The only spellcasters are going to be spontaneous casters with rather limited spell access: beguilers, duskblades, spellthieves...you get the idea.

I know how to keep the level of magic items low, but that is the easy part. What I am really looking forward to is advice on how to gauge the deadliness of a game with a dearth of magic items. Some things are obvious (DR/magic or alignment, incorporealness, etc). What I am looking for are the not-so-obvious ways in which the party might be hampered or killed because the game assumes a certain access to magic items.

Mostly what I would like is advice on how the lack of items will influence the types of CRs that the party can face. RAW assume pretty easy access to items that improve AC, attacks, saves, grant invisibility, increase movement, all that jazz.

The other thing I would welcome advice on is how to adjustment the amount of wealth I should allow the party to accumulate when they are not spending it on magic items. I don't want them to be able to buy a fiefdom at 7th level because I forgot to adjust creature treasure down.

I don't expect a simple formula to determine CRs and treasue (party magic item value/standard magic item value* CR), although that would be nice! Mostly I would just like to hear from people who have run campaigns with a lower-than-standard access to magic items, what problems they ran into and how the adjusted their game accordingly.

Thanks in advance.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Use a different system. Really. Just don't.

 

[Ciaran]

Use a different system. Really. Just don't.

Tell that to all of the DMs who have run very successful low-magic-item games. There are several Story Hours here on this site (most notably Fajitas' Halmae campaign, and el-remmen's Out of the Frying Pan campaign) describing low-magic-item games. They should provide some useful inspiration.

 

[Valesin]

Use a different system. Really. Just don't.

I guess I just don't accept that it is impossible to run D&D (with some changes obviously) to attain this. Other versions of the game had much more restricted access to magic items, and good fantasy fiction has nowhere near the level of ubiquitous magic trinkets as D&D. It wasn't until the (unfortunate) popularity of video games that such Monte Hall-ism became entrenched in the genre.

 

[Valesin]

Tell that to all of the DMs who have run very successful low-magic-item games. There are several Story Hours here on this site (most notably Fajitas' Halmae campaign, and el-remmen's Out of the Frying Pan campaign) describing low-magic-item games. They should provide some useful inspiration.

Thanks. That is something I forgot to put in my post: if it is easier to point me in the direction of venues where this has been discussed than to rehash is for my benefit, please do so. I am sure that this has been discussed before and I am (slowly) trying to unearth those resources, but an nudges in the right direction would be appreciated.

 

[A'koss]

I've tried this in the past with little success. AC becomes a real issue as you get into the mid and high levels without the magic. Saving Throws, damage output and disparity between the classes will become an increasing concern. Magic wielding characters start to pull ahead of those that don't have it pretty quick. Magic items are one of the big balancers for the non-spellcasters in 3e.

I'm inclined to agree with VirgilCaine here - if you seriously want to go this route, save yourself the pain and frustration and use a system designed to handle it.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

What VirgilCaine said.

I am currently designing a campaign in which I would like to (significantly) lower the availability of magic items. It is going to have a moderate level of 'magic', but much of what will be available is going to be non-standard: incarnum, truename, binding, etc. The only spellcasters are going to be spontaneous casters with rather limited spell access: beguilers, duskblades, spellthieves...you get the idea.

I know how to keep the level of magic items low, but that is the easy part.

What fraction of magic item value will you allow?

What I am really looking forward to is advice on how to gauge the deadliness of a game with a dearth of magic items. Some things are obvious (DR/magic or alignment, incorporealness, etc). What I am looking for are the not-so-obvious ways in which the party might be hampered or killed because the game assumes a certain access to magic items.

Their saving throw values will be low. When you're expected to have a +3 Cloak of Resistance at x level, being bitten by a poisonous creature is deadlier than normal. Same thing goes for resisting spells, being petrified by gaze attacks, and anything else involving saving throws.

Their AC scores won't just be low, they will suck. BAB scales with character level, but unless you're a monk AC doesn't scale, except through Dex increases that not all characters will take, as it doesn't always support your character concept. As a countermeasure (a bad one, IMO, but it's still relatively balanced) DnD 3rd Edition has a very large number of magic items that can boost your AC. You can generally only boost your attack bonus (using a magic item) through a magic weapon and maybe a stat-boosting item. You can boost your AC through Dex-boosting items, amulets of natural armor, rings of protection, magic armor, and magic shields. (I'm leaving out some items, like luckstones, as they're rare and give multiple benefits, so they're not really cost-effective.)

PCs will get slaughtered because monsters that can hardly miss will now Power Attack for huge amounts and still land effective blows. NPC combatants will chop through them without missing. But on the plus side, reducing the amount of magic items PCs get will reduce the effective CR differential between PCs and NPCs of the same level. I don't think this advantage is worth it, not even from the PoV of having fun (always hitting, always being hit).

Clerics will become more important and will have to devote more spells to healing and removing status ailments. Dispel Magic will become much more common as a broad-brush counter to status effects.

Mostly what I would like is advice on how the lack of items will influence the types of CRs that the party can face. RAW assume pretty easy access to items that improve AC, attacks, saves, grant invisibility, increase movement, all that jazz.

See above.

Note that a monster's threat is a combination of factors: hp, AC, saves, attack bonuses, special abilities, even Int scores. Some, such as hp and AC, will be slightly more effective (PCs will do slightly less damage and will hit slightly less often). Some, like attack bonuses, will be hugely affected (they'll hardly ever miss), and some (like save DCs) will be moderately affected. You'll have to modify each monster on its own - I don't just mean the CR, but ad-hoc modifiers to save DCs, attack bonuses, and the like.

The other thing I would welcome advice on is how to adjustment the amount of wealth I should allow the party to accumulate when they are not spending it on magic items. I don't want them to be able to buy a fiefdom at 7th level because I forgot to adjust creature treasure down.

I thought you said you knew how to control access to magic items, but it seems you do not. Do not use anything resembling the treasure values.

I don't expect a simple formula to determine CRs and treasue (party magic item value/standard magic item value* CR), although that would be nice! Mostly I would just like to hear from people who have run campaigns with a lower-than-standard access to magic items, what problems they ran into and how the adjusted their game accordingly.

Thanks in advance.

I've been in such campaigns in 3e. After a few levels, players stop having as much fun and DM workload increases dramatically. There's no single formula for modifying CRs as described above, and as for treasure, just give out whatever you think is reasonable. Not knowing what to spend $ on is a perennial problem in many settings that don't use magic items or other $=power-up systems.

I suggest A Game of Thrones, d20 Modern (yes, it can be used in a medieval setting, despite the name), Grim Tales, Conan, Iron Heroes, Midnight, or any other low magic d20 fantasy system out there. I do not suggest DnD, unless you feel confident enough in your abilities to (in effect) create your own d20 game system.

Iron Heroes is probably the easiest one to use, if you want to be able to still run DnD adventures and still use DnD monsters.

 

[Bladesong]

Frankly, I do not understand why people have a hard time doing this. For the record, the groups I have run talk more fondly of the low magic games than they do the "everyone is a god by 20th level" games.

Anyway, to answer your questions:

For treasure you just need to calculate their monthly expentitures for food, lodging, information, repairs, etc. and make sure they get AT LEAST that amount, plus however much more you want to give them for living life to it's fullest (i.e. partying).
Also make sure they get enough to upgrade their equipment every few levels.

CRs for creatures without substantial magical attacks or defenses can be used as is or use one level lower until you get feel for it (that is if the party is level 5 try using a CR 4 until you get the hang of it).

Avoid incorporeal creatures altogether unless you allow silver or iron weapons to take the place of magic weapons and then you do not have to worry about CR.

Magic oriented creatures are tougher, but especially the ones with strong magical defenses. There is no hard, fast rule for this, but I loosely just add 5 to the CR of magically oriented creatures. Just take a look at what the party has an can do and ask yourself "do they have a moderately good chance to overcome this foe". If the answer is 'yes' use it, if the answer is 'no', go with something else. Personally, I would recommend avoiding magically oriented creatures altogether except where you have placed some means for the party to specifically deal with it.

The last low level magic campaign I ran mainly had encounters with goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears and ogres. As the party went up in levels, I gave levels to their foes. There were other encounters as well: wyverns, bulette, chimeras and all of them suitably challenged the party. These encounters are only boring if you are (sorry, but it is true).

Just use common sense and pay attention to how encounters go and you will get a feel for it soon enough.

Good luck!

 

[Glyfair]

For one solution, I recommend using or adapting the Unearthed Arcana rules for giving defense bonuses to classes. This can help the problem with AC at high levels.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

For one solution, I recommend using or adapting the Unearthed Arcana rules for giving defense bonuses to classes. This can help the problem with AC at high levels.

That's not particularly useful advice. For starters, the class bonus to Defense does not stack with armor, leaving armored fighter-types out in the cold.

Even the best case scenario - let's take a look at a 20th-level rogue. By that level, a rogue could have a +5 mithral chain shirt, giving a +9 AC bonus. The class bonus to Defense table gives him a +9 bonus (which he gets without wearing any armor), a total gain of zip. A +5 Ring of Protection gives a bigger bonus (obviously), and the low-magic rogue won't have one. He also won't get anything from an Amulet of Natural Armor or any other magic item sources. Even if given the max Defense possible (+12), the bonus is more than out-done by a Ring of Protection.

You might be better off giving a special class-bonus to AC that does not get affected by armor and approximates what you could get from magic - and you need to take shields into account and some corner cases. Now all you need to do is give each class abilities to replicate what they're missing from all the other magic items. Iron Heroes does something like this, but it's a lot less work for the DM and (if you ask me) much more fun, too.