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Message: <blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 4633004" data-attributes="member: 43019">It is better than the gloves of burglary... hence 2nd level is a good spot for it. This isn't complicated math.+5 damage that you can guarantee on an attack has a real value. Your hyperbole does not change that fact. Perhaps level 5 is too high for it, and level 3 might be better... but that's still a perfectly valid item level and not that far off. It's within the same cost band, for instance.I'd say it's more useful than Gloves of Piercing and Shadowfell Gloves, using its closest neighbors in its item slot. Course, I'd say the shadowfell gloves are overpriced, but it's easy to go 'Let's see, +5 damage you can declare after you've already hit compared to 1d6 that might miss, with the sometimes disadvantage that it has to be necrotic' and see where Gloves of Ogre Power are slightly better, then go 'Oh, and hey, a +1 athletics'. Given that a +2 Athletics would be about a  7th level item, that's making it look more and more reasonable.It should definitely be lower level than Gauntlets of the Ram (8th), though, since those are pretty decent.Now, it may be that you think that many items should be better - that is the subject of this thread, roughly speaking - but it doesn't change you being factually wrong on either your first statement or reply (as factually wrong as saying a +2 weapon are level 2 items cause of how much they suck anyways)... so maybe stick with addressing the problem at hand in a logical fashion before just throwing around "level suck" type advice?</blockquote>

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