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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4997596" data-attributes="member: 4937">That would be one way to go.  As I've argued before though, if you go that way you run the risk of reducing the value of skills (fewer skills matter to your build and you have better access to them), and if you do that Intelligence becomes a dump stat for most classes.  That's not at all where I wanted to go.  So, I've done almost the opposite of that in most ways.Cross-class skills are still in and one of the major features of a class is which skills it allows easy access to - fighters for get tactics and leadership (the only class with both) and a large range of strength based skills.  A minor sacrifice of combat power though gives you large customibility though (I use an advantage/disadvantage system, and all characters start with one free advantage.).  The skill list is actually considerably broadened.  To compensate, most classes get considerably more skill points but not so much that you can have mastery in everything you might want (without exceptional intelligence).  Additionally skills get considerably more powerful.  Heal can actually be used to recover minor amounts of hit points by binding recent wounds, and with enough Heal you can actually bring the recently dead back to life.  Concentration does useful things outside of spell casting.  Intimidates debuffing power gets more powerful, especially when it interacts with combat feats that let you do it as a free action.  You can do interesting things with the Dreaming skill like see your surroundings while fully asleep, and with sufficient Planeswalking you can plane shift without the need for a spell.  You can cast minor divinations with sufficient time and Astrology.  Tactics lets you improve your cover, improve your initiative, avoid some circumstance modifiers, and even give minor buffs to your allies.  Leadership lets you counter debuffs on your allies like moral penalties, shaken, paniced, cowering, or flatfooted.  Empathy lets you communicate with things that aren't normally intelligent (ever wanted to have a pet ooze?), and train creatures (as per animal handling) practically instantly.  Runing lets you increase your movement rate.  Porter increases the weight you can bear before encumberance penalties effect you.  Sense motive can be used to resist several manuevers in combat.  Basically, I don't think you should have to wait for epic levels before lots of skill lets you start doing epic things.  Granted, most of the above are class exclusive skills that are limited to certain classes, but if you really want a fighter that can jaunt to the ethereal plane or the elemental plane of fire at high levels its not that hard to do it and no magic item required.  In a fighter's case, the color would be you just cut a hole in the fabric of reality and step through.  Possibly.  I don't really argue that.  What I want to know is how you know that they failed at their primary design goal of making rogues high damage dealers and that is what needs to be fixed, as opposed to the alternative theory that they failed at making skills matter enough and that's the basic problem with any skillful class.I don't think I've ever used 'Sense Motive or Die', but I have on a couple of occasions used, in essence, 'Balance Check or Die'.  When you're 5th level, and you are on a crumbling ledge 400' up, chance are if you really fumble that DC 7 balance check (result of 2 or less) and go over the brink, unless you roll a tremendous climb check result ("He didn't fall, inconceivable!") you are going to be dead.  Although, conceivable, if you got in a fight with some bugbears shock troops on a narrow mountain pass or in a room with some particularly nasty traps, I could imagine some situations that would in essense amount to 'Sense Motive or Die'.  Although, technically, even 'Fort save or Die' in my campaign usually involves at least one second chance.Yes, but if you play in a campaign where some race has the ability to speak to burrowing animals and it never comes up, it makes me really question why they have the ability in the first place.</blockquote>

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