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<blockquote data-quote="Ace" data-source="post: 384184" data-attributes="member: 944"><p>Let me start with the class level bit. I have mixed opinions on that. I don't automatically find "level" as a measure of overall skill unreasonable. The problem in 3e is not class/level per se but power curve. </p><p></p><p>A 20th level fighter is 95% more likely to hit than a first level fighter. Thats OK by me. The problem comes with </p><p></p><p>#1 A 20th level fighter is roughly 20x harder to kill by any means other than poison than his 1st level counterpart. This is great in a superheroic game. Ina game with "simulationist leanings" it makes no sense</p><p></p><p>#2 A substantial chunk of a charcters effectiveness is magic item driven. Great in regular D&D. Not so good in low magic settings</p><p>Level needs to be overall skill yet there needs to be a small risk of death from an inferior fighter. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Issue 2 combat ---</p><p>D&D combat is very dull unless magic is involved. Two fighters each 5th level with say 40HP and weapons that do a 1d8+4. Lets say they chain and shield-- AC18. Combat looks like this </p><p>I roll to hit--miss</p><p>I roll to hit -- hit you take 9</p><p>OK I roll to hit--- you take 10</p><p>And so on until someone drops. </p><p></p><p>I concede the current feats system fixes much of this but it still doesn't capture the dynamism of real combat and the deadly peril. Now in regular D&D it is a feature not a bug. I want to emphasize I don't consider anything wrong with 3e, its a different tool set for a different job not a relacement.</p><p></p><p>Also I tweaked the movement system a bit to change battlefield movement options</p><p></p><p>I have also added a 'spiral of death that gives increasing penaltys if wounded, a stun and bleeding option and a few other nasty things that are optional.</p><p></p><p>Oh for the record, you have defense score and armor is DR based There are also some very cool (in my biased opinion) shield rules </p><p></p><p>#3 Skills</p><p>What I did here is simple. </p><p>Each charcter class gets 2 more skill points. Also each character with have a group of skills composed of </p><p>lore-- these are skills that are learned by being among a group</p><p>each charcter starts with two of these skills at 4</p><p>culture lore, knowledge of thier own society </p><p>and area lore, knowledge of home turf</p><p></p><p>They will also have 4 or so skillas that are treated as class skills. These are derived entirely from where the character is from. A character who is say from commoner stock might have</p><p>Profession Farmer</p><p>Weather Sense</p><p>Animal Handling </p><p>Folk Lore</p><p></p><p>In additon to his class skills </p><p>he can also get a feat called "professional training" that gives more open skills</p><p></p><p>A character might spend a feat on professional training 'fisherman' and would gain swimming, profession fisherman, boating and sea lore skills</p><p></p><p></p><p>#4 Feats. These stay pretty much the same. I haven't worked out a way to give more feats thats satifies me yet but i would like to have a system that allows a character to have a few extra feats. These days there are so many.</p><p></p><p>OK what else, the game includes OGL stats for about 30 critters conversions form the proto SRD really. </p><p></p><p>#5 Magic</p><p>My solution to this is a little strange, I have on spell casting class called the mage that has access to all spells. The character has poor combat ability, the wizards bonus feat and a mana point system. Spells are learned from books or by other suggested methods.</p><p>I also have some domain options and a few other tweaks</p><p> </p><p>To keep spells undercontrol I do three things</p><p>Mana point costs: Spells cost spell level +1 plus a campaign specific subtly penalty</p><p>The default is that big boom/zap/move the world around spells cost more. There are option to allow the use of regular classes with various degrees of subtlty instead</p><p></p><p>#2- I offer a "bloodline" option to determine mage strength.</p><p></p><p>#3 Armor works fine, thank you. There are some options to allow say lightning to be more effective against metal armor but in the basic game, armor does work</p><p>A 1st level mage casts a magic missle. In basic D&D it is a kill 1 peasnat free spell. In my rules set it a strongly thrust dagger and might not get through armor</p><p>a fifth level mage throws a fireball. In the regular system it does say 18 points on a failed save- 9 on a sucess. It crisps low levels in the area.</p><p>In this system saves are as normal. If you save taking say 9 you subtract you armor (Plate and shield) you won't even be hurt!</p><p></p><p>Thats not everything bnut its the core stuff. </p><p></p><p>I have some guidelines for firearms and sone stuff (not yet written) for modern/ future games.</p><p></p><p>Feel free to ask any question I appreciate your interest and frankly I your question help me decide if this is worth continuing and hopefully making it into a commerical product </p><p></p><p>Now there is a classless/ level/ version but I am going to put that in another post.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ace, post: 384184, member: 944"] Let me start with the class level bit. I have mixed opinions on that. I don't automatically find "level" as a measure of overall skill unreasonable. The problem in 3e is not class/level per se but power curve. A 20th level fighter is 95% more likely to hit than a first level fighter. Thats OK by me. The problem comes with #1 A 20th level fighter is roughly 20x harder to kill by any means other than poison than his 1st level counterpart. This is great in a superheroic game. Ina game with "simulationist leanings" it makes no sense #2 A substantial chunk of a charcters effectiveness is magic item driven. Great in regular D&D. Not so good in low magic settings Level needs to be overall skill yet there needs to be a small risk of death from an inferior fighter. Issue 2 combat --- D&D combat is very dull unless magic is involved. Two fighters each 5th level with say 40HP and weapons that do a 1d8+4. Lets say they chain and shield-- AC18. Combat looks like this I roll to hit--miss I roll to hit -- hit you take 9 OK I roll to hit--- you take 10 And so on until someone drops. I concede the current feats system fixes much of this but it still doesn't capture the dynamism of real combat and the deadly peril. Now in regular D&D it is a feature not a bug. I want to emphasize I don't consider anything wrong with 3e, its a different tool set for a different job not a relacement. Also I tweaked the movement system a bit to change battlefield movement options I have also added a 'spiral of death that gives increasing penaltys if wounded, a stun and bleeding option and a few other nasty things that are optional. Oh for the record, you have defense score and armor is DR based There are also some very cool (in my biased opinion) shield rules #3 Skills What I did here is simple. Each charcter class gets 2 more skill points. Also each character with have a group of skills composed of lore-- these are skills that are learned by being among a group each charcter starts with two of these skills at 4 culture lore, knowledge of thier own society and area lore, knowledge of home turf They will also have 4 or so skillas that are treated as class skills. These are derived entirely from where the character is from. A character who is say from commoner stock might have Profession Farmer Weather Sense Animal Handling Folk Lore In additon to his class skills he can also get a feat called "professional training" that gives more open skills A character might spend a feat on professional training 'fisherman' and would gain swimming, profession fisherman, boating and sea lore skills #4 Feats. These stay pretty much the same. I haven't worked out a way to give more feats thats satifies me yet but i would like to have a system that allows a character to have a few extra feats. These days there are so many. OK what else, the game includes OGL stats for about 30 critters conversions form the proto SRD really. #5 Magic My solution to this is a little strange, I have on spell casting class called the mage that has access to all spells. The character has poor combat ability, the wizards bonus feat and a mana point system. Spells are learned from books or by other suggested methods. I also have some domain options and a few other tweaks To keep spells undercontrol I do three things Mana point costs: Spells cost spell level +1 plus a campaign specific subtly penalty The default is that big boom/zap/move the world around spells cost more. There are option to allow the use of regular classes with various degrees of subtlty instead #2- I offer a "bloodline" option to determine mage strength. #3 Armor works fine, thank you. There are some options to allow say lightning to be more effective against metal armor but in the basic game, armor does work A 1st level mage casts a magic missle. In basic D&D it is a kill 1 peasnat free spell. In my rules set it a strongly thrust dagger and might not get through armor a fifth level mage throws a fireball. In the regular system it does say 18 points on a failed save- 9 on a sucess. It crisps low levels in the area. In this system saves are as normal. If you save taking say 9 you subtract you armor (Plate and shield) you won't even be hurt! Thats not everything bnut its the core stuff. I have some guidelines for firearms and sone stuff (not yet written) for modern/ future games. Feel free to ask any question I appreciate your interest and frankly I your question help me decide if this is worth continuing and hopefully making it into a commerical product Now there is a classless/ level/ version but I am going to put that in another post. [/QUOTE]
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