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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jaer" data-source="post: 4088963" data-attributes="member: 57861">This sounds more like a DM decision then a edition decision.  Anyone in 3e could have done the same thing: make a check, there is a secret passage.  In 4e, the same thing could be taken away.One thing about this encounter that needs to be taken into account was that it was designed to be run in a convention.  It was designed to be run for multiple players by multiple DMS.  Were I to run something similar, I'm sure I would do it very differently then it was at a convention because I would design it specifically for me to run, not so thay 20 people can read a couple sheets and DM the scene for random people.I can see how this design idea can carry over into something like a Crushing Room trap; each round the wall moves in 5 feet.  In 5 rounds, the PCs are flattened.  A successful str check stops the wall from moving that round.  There is a metal grate in the wall behind which the clockwork mechanisms are clicking away; the grate is too havy to lift, but there is a chain hanging from the ceiling attached to it through a pulley device of some kind.  That might be enough to open the grate.Someone made a perception check, so the athletic check to climb up the wall is better because the PC noticed a couple footholds in the wall leading toward the chain. A successful moderately difficult climb check would get the character just high enough to reach the chain (a low DC climb check would then require a low DC jump check...someone who wasn't as athletic could try two easy DCs vs 1 moderate DC check if they thought that would benefit them). The PC who is actually climbing decided to go a bit higher, aiming for the harder check.  Having gotten as high as he did, PC was able to get a good grasp of the chain and is in a better position to pull it and hold it (+2 to his str check to pull the chain and open the grate).With the grate open, the PC disabling the trap isn't squeezing his hands through a grate coated with mild contact poison anymore as he manipulates the mechanism, lowering the DC of the disable device and keeps the character from suffering poison damage. If the Disable device fails, the player can keep trying, so long as the chain holder can keep holding the chain and the wall doesn't advance all the way across the room.I'm sure there are other skills characters could bring into play to get out of this trap that I haven't though of and planned for.  I would need to be willing to listen to my player's ideas and decide what sort of affect, if any, they have in this situation.  But I wouldn't simply add something becuase my PC decided to search for a secret door and succeed his check.  If it's not there, it's not there.Could this be done in 3e?  Sure, there is no reason it couldn't.  Use a skill, succeed, and go on to the next skill.  But this was not the design philosophy of 3e.  The philosophy there was that the trap sprung and it either hit or missed or the characters got a save against something.  And then it was over.The design philosophy in 4e is that things are much more complex and should require several rolls and more character involvment to 'defeat' a challenge.  It's still in the DM's hands to create these challenges as they see fit.</blockquote>

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