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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Andur" data-source="post: 4089053" data-attributes="member: 27898">Derren, though I do appreciate your bending of reality to suit your own needs, you do need to remain within the realms of logic.I'm sorry who is the DM?  Who decides if the skill checks are relevant or not?  Not sure about you, but I don't DM like a scripted AI bot in a 'puter game.So is a secret door there or not if the players fail on a search check?  I mean, the secret door is not on the map, so no matter what there is no way the players can discover it, correct?A dead end alley in which people have cut away the fence, dug under the wall, made a hole in and covered up with some empty boxes, none of those exist in the real world either.  The PC's running down a street and can see the alleyways off to the sides, either one of them knows about the "little known" passage or they don't. Either way the maps are going to show it as a dead end.You as the DM decide how many and what skill checks are to be made in order to accomplish the goal.  If player's actions run counter to the goal, well then they simply don't succeed.  (Make 4 running checks to get away, ok, I run around the fountain.  You get caught as the guards don't pursue and you run straight into them)What 4e seems to be doing is giving a system in which players can be fairly rewarded for accompishing tasks, whether that task is bashing skulls, rubbing elbows, or running minefields doesn't matter.  The Dm decides how difficult it will be (thus what the reward will be) and the rules help outline ways the players can succeed or fail, notice outline, not map.Common sense and Rule 0 go a long, long way in DMing...</blockquote>

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