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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Derren" data-source="post: 4090894" data-attributes="member: 2518">Yes I do. The players should not add to the game world. That is the DMs job. What the players should do is to influence and act inside the game world but not change the game world in a metagame way. (Changing teh game world by in game action is fine, placing a princess into a certain place because the player rolled a skill check is not)All this can also be done in 3E and it isn't necessary to change the game world for this. Are you unable to understand this or do you have to resort to attacking my argument with "You don't want to let the players tell a story" accusations and now have to twist my words so that this attack fits?When I play a thief I can too tell a story about him fleeing from guards without constantly changing the game world by making alleys and princesses appear everywhere where formally where non by a skill role and instead work with the city how it exists by definition of the DM.No, the proposed way in 4E is different than in 3E but as above posers said nothing prevents you from using this skill setup in 3E too. Except that in 3E the players have to think more about what they do as they are not automatically good at everything which means each has his strengths and weaknesses, and because the game world is not constantly changing to suit the PCs needs. Instead the PCs have to be more attentive in order to work with the game world, not constantly rewriting it.The idea to use the skills this way is very good, but the execution is bad. It would have been good as a guideline, not as a rule.You seem to want to imply that my way is a iron fisted railroading one, but that can't be more wrong. My idea of a skill encounter is a lot more freeform than this 4E system (except for the rewriting reality part) because the PCs have total freedom of what they want to do and are not constrained by having to succeed in X skill checks. When they find a way to get out of the city with no skill checks at all, fine. When they make a huge detour which takes a whole gaming session its also fine. In 4E this escape the city part is always limited by the amount of skills you have to roll before you fail or succeed.This is a good system for people who only want a limited amount of interaction with the game world before going back to the dungeon or other adventure part or for people who don't want to think too much about what they actually do and instead only want to pull of some cool looking stunts but I am not one of those persons.</blockquote>

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