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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bayonet_Chris" data-source="post: 4091760" data-attributes="member: 34405">Action Resolution vs Goal ResolutionYou're right - it's a matter of order. Jaer prefers the players make a decision first and they deal with the consequences. Any skill checks are based on "the player performed this action".It looks like 4th Edition is goal-based. The player says "I am looking for an alley to escape through" and, based on their roll, gets them closer or further from their goal. I envision it more like this:Thiefy McThievesalot is madly dashing through the market away from the guards and makes a streetwise check. He rolls poorly and goes down the <already pre-defined> dead end on your map. It's not like the marketplace is clear and the guy isn't distracted already. Maybe he could have been headed for the correct alley, but was cut off. It can be anything that thwarts the PC from achieving his desired goal.A high check of another kind doesn't let him make a secret door where the GM clearly defined there was not one, but may allow him to:Hide long enough to give him a chance to make a break for the correct alleyStart scaling one of the nearby buildingsBreak into one of the buildings making the alleywayThere is nothing that I've seen that forces the GM to automatically make stuff up that he doesn't want to have. Furthermore, you can provide lower difficulties for rational or ingenious solutions to the problem and make it more difficult or nigh-impossible for solutions you consider silly or impractical. A successful roll doesn't have to mean "they've gained a success versus my static number", but it could give them time or a bonus to something else.Example:Thiefy has gone down the dead-end alley because of his poor Streetwise roll. The guards are nearby and one spots him, getting his buddies to pin him in."We've got you now", they say, grinning to themselves as they advance. Our thief, clearly out of options, tries to talk his way out of it. Using bluff (modified by the actual role-playing), he may give himself enough space to make a break for it."Wanna see a magic trick?" Thiefy McThievesalot says hastily. The guards hesistate for a moment, unsure of themselves. "Just close your eyes and count to ten and I'll disappear". One of the slower guards looks at him with a confused expression, clearly not getting the joke. He glances at his comrade, who immediately guffaws at the situation. Seeing his chance, Thiefy makes his break. At this point he makes his Athletics (or whatever) check, probably with a bonus due to the distraction, to see if he can escape immediately and continue the chase.At least, that's how I see it.</blockquote>

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