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<blockquote data-quote="jaer" data-source="post: 4092093" data-attributes="member: 57861">The system, if nothing else, does inspire different ways to do things.&nbsp; I will take what I feel comfortable integrating and drop the rest.No problem at all.&nbsp; Perhaps my &quot;agree with Derren&quot; statement was a little to non-specific. I see where he is coming from, and it is from a similar DM style that I take: Know where everything is and who everyone is before had so that surprised don't come up.&nbsp; I have determined where everything is, so you are right, I don't need a die roll to tell me if there is or isn't something there.This is where Derren and I differ: I don't have a problem with 4e supporting a different skill style than mine, especially because I can see how this style would work for other people.&nbsp; &nbsp; I am still all for 4e, and my comments here were a discussion about how this system doesn't mesh with my style and why.&nbsp; It was not meant to convince people that my way was best, and shame on WotC for not doing it my way.I had stated that, were I designing and running an escape scenario like this, the players would have a map of their general surroundings.&nbsp; If they knew the city (it was their home base), they would be able to see the whole map.&nbsp; If not (fairly new arrivals) it would be covered and they would only generally know where the front gate was.&nbsp; But they would have a detailed picture of what they could see.Even if they didn't have a map to say &quot;this alley,&quot; it happens easy enough.PC: I want to duck down an alley way and hide.DM: There is only one you can get to this round with your movement.&nbsp; The others are farther away than you can move.PC: Okay, then I duck down the one I can reach.Even if the PCs don't have a map and are reliant upon my description, I do have a map and I know what they can and can't get to based on that map.&nbsp; They can pick a dead end alley on my map without me ever needing to to show them where they are on a map, so long as I know where they are.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="jaer, post: 4092093, member: 57861"] The system, if nothing else, does inspire different ways to do things. I will take what I feel comfortable integrating and drop the rest. No problem at all. Perhaps my "agree with Derren" statement was a little to non-specific. I see where he is coming from, and it is from a similar DM style that I take: Know where everything is and who everyone is before had so that surprised don't come up. I have determined where everything is, so you are right, I don't need a die roll to tell me if there is or isn't something there. This is where Derren and I differ: I don't have a problem with 4e supporting a different skill style than mine, especially because I can see how this style would work for other people. I am still all for 4e, and my comments here were a discussion about how this system doesn't mesh with my style and why. It was not meant to convince people that my way was best, and shame on WotC for not doing it my way. I had stated that, were I designing and running an escape scenario like this, the players would have a map of their general surroundings. If they knew the city (it was their home base), they would be able to see the whole map. If not (fairly new arrivals) it would be covered and they would only generally know where the front gate was. But they would have a detailed picture of what they could see. Even if they didn't have a map to say "this alley," it happens easy enough. PC: I want to duck down an alley way and hide. DM: There is only one you can get to this round with your movement. The others are farther away than you can move. PC: Okay, then I duck down the one I can reach. Even if the PCs don't have a map and are reliant upon my description, I do have a map and I know what they can and can't get to based on that map. They can pick a dead end alley on my map without me ever needing to to show them where they are on a map, so long as I know where they are. [/QUOTE]

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