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<blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 2711362" data-attributes="member: 1656">Well, come to that:Your attack bonus with a melee weapon is:Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + size modifierThe paragraph above that states: When you make an attack roll, you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus. (Other modifiers may also apply to this roll.)On the other hand, it does note that:A grapple check is like a melee attack roll. Your attack bonus on a grapple check is:Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + special size modifierSo, a melee attack roll is d20 + attack bonus + other modifiers.A grapple check is like a melee attack roll, with the caveat that the attack bonus is different.I can see how it can be argued that 'other modifiers' applicable to melee attack rolls are applicable to something that is 'like an attack roll'.After all, nothing in the definition of 'opposed grapple check' in the Grappling section states 'roll a d20'.&nbsp; The only way to determine that a d20 is required is to note that it is 'like a melee attack roll', which requires you to roll a d20 before adding your attack bonus and other modifiers.-Hyp.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hypersmurf, post: 2711362, member: 1656"] Well, come to that: [i]Your attack bonus with a melee weapon is: Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + size modifier[/i] The paragraph above that states: [i]When you make an attack roll, you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus. [b](Other modifiers may also apply to this roll.)[/b][/i] On the other hand, it does note that: [i]A grapple check is [b]like a melee attack roll.[/b] Your attack bonus on a grapple check is: Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + special size modifier[/i] So, a melee attack roll is d20 + attack bonus + other modifiers. A grapple check is like a melee attack roll, with the caveat that the attack bonus is different. I can see how it can be argued that 'other modifiers' applicable to melee attack rolls are applicable to something that is 'like an attack roll'. After all, nothing in the definition of 'opposed grapple check' in the Grappling section states 'roll a d20'. The only way to determine that a d20 is required is to note that it is 'like a melee attack roll', which requires you to roll a d20 before adding your attack bonus and other modifiers. -Hyp. [/QUOTE]

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