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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kenjib" data-source="post: 166753" data-attributes="member: 530">Petrosian,Ah, sorry.  You posted while I was also posting it seems so I didn't see your previous post.  You made some good points - especially regarding the fact that #1 and #2 were already covered under the rules.  Thanks for clearing that up for me!  I appreciate it.  My mistake.  The "any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items" statement in the DMG is what was confusing me, as it seems to contradict the lab requirement you pointed out from the PHB, but I can see now how it could be intepreted otherwise and I agree with you 100%.One point on #3 though - while I agree that taking the feat grants you with certain knowledge, enchanting items and the spells needed as prereqs do not have a one-to-one correlation.  That is why I think it's odd that there is no research involved in creating items.  I can see it fine for scrolls, potions, wands, and even many of the other types of magic items that relate directly to spells like a ring of invisibility.  However consider the differences between these items and their prereqs:1.  Cloak of the Manta Ray versus Freedom of Movement and Water Breathing.2.  Sword of Wounding versus Mordenkainen's Sword.3.  Banded Mail of Luck versus Bless.4.  Rod of Security versus Gate.5.  Ioun Stones versus no spell requirements at all.6.  Periapt of Wisdom versus Commune or Legend Lore.We're not talking about simply imbuing items with the effects of a given spell.  There is something else going in to these items.  Considering the unlimited range of magic item possibilities and effects the player might invent (subject to DM approval of course as is everything in the game) for which there is no existing spell with exact correlation, that sure is a lot of knowledge to gain with one feat.  In just the case of Ioun Stones, a spell caster gains the ability to create all of the following effects without any other knowledge just from taking one feat:  armor bonus, no need for food/water, bonus to all six stats, alertness feat, spell storing, no need to breath, bonus to saves checks and to-hit, regeneration, and spell absorption.  This is in addition to numerous other unique effects possessed by various wonderous items as well as a possibly infinite number of player concocted magic item effects.I only suggested it as a variant rule, not a replacement for the core rules in some mythical 4e.  Like I said before, I know that not everyone would like it.  I see your point but I do not agree.  I'm sure my preference for low magic also has notable impact on this viewpoint since this variant has an effect, convenient to me, of further reducing the ease of making magic items.P.S.  The "fast-forward the clock" statement was a simplification on my part, not a literal statement of game mechanic.  I understand the time requirements, it was just shorthand.  I apologize for the confusion but we are not in disagreement there at all.</blockquote>

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