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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1774698" data-attributes="member: 5777">I disagree. While there are many levels of summon monster they tend to have a whole lot more options. I gave a list above, but I will repost it.1) Reach (pretty nice ability here)2) SR (all summon monsters have it)3) Energy resistance (nearly very summon has it)4) communication (all creatures of int 3 or higher understand at least one language, which is common unless specified otherwise, it is not as far as I can tell, so communicating with the animals shouldnt be much of a problem)5) Scent (this one is 'huge'. this means that the creatures can get around invisibility to some extent and be able to perform other tasks as needed)6) Skills (listen and spot are on most of the creatures somewhere, plus for the ones here the ape has a massive climb, which can be useful. Lots of options is what the summon monster list seems to try to be about, it doesnt always do a good job though).7) Saves (astral construct saves tend to be pretty poor, the 9th level version has +6 to all saves, both of the two guys here for summon monster 3 almost have that [+6/+6/+2 and +7/+4/+1]8) Specials (such as the hell hounds fire breath, with this guy at your side you might actually be able to kill off that troll, none of the other three guys are able to do that, or the earth elemental to walk through the ground to find out which tomb is the fake, or whatever other options may come up)The melee brute of the astral construct can beat out the guy in some ways, others will be better for other situations (such as the gargantuan fiendish monstrous scorpian, against many targets his ability to grapple and sting for a pretty hefty poison will be a great boon, or the couatl for a pile of various ability uses, one single casting can turn into dozens of other spells, etc)The astral construct has some nice choices, but very limited. The sheer amount of options that the summon monster list provides holds a great deal of power. Utility and options vs a moderatly stronger melee brute (depending on the opponent and choices, such as going for SR for a bit of help since their saves are so horrible, this cuts into either offense or defense greatly).Like I have said though, I think the astral construct does great for what it was made for. However, it still isnt worth a whole pile of spells. It is still effectively only worth one spell.Mmm.. colossal fiendish monstrous spider. Web someone, grapple them, keep biting until they are dead. With a 30' reach they are good to go. The construct itself is mostly immune, except that it almost cant win grapple checks (+12 difference is nice) and the fighter is in some major trouble. Plus, it should get 11 feats to play with.Or d3 colossal fiendish monstrous centipedes <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Those guys are rocking it out for this comparison. Or hellcats, invisible and striking. Not many hp each, but get surrounded by the buggers without being able to see them and definite trouble ensues. Options. Against any particular opponent there is a guy to summon to fix the problem, or at least help to delay them while running (as these guys are so low in CR I wouldnt expect any to be able to hold a candle for too long, although that spider above has a chance of killing the fighter outright)The astral construct might be able to specialize in a certain area in order to be as good as the summon monster spell, but it still lacks the number of options that it has. Over the course of the carear still more or less equal.Astral construct does have a better feat though, augment construct. With that I think that astral construct pulls into the lead by enough for it to be worth a couple different spells. In essence it puts enough options into it to make it be able to have choices for each manifestation to be able to go for enough offense and defense.Still, at any level the astral construct will never make a save. They do have some nice immunities, but there are lots of ways around them (in this case, such as any damage dealing spell/power). Overall its options for any one manifestation are much less than a general summon monster. Although the summon monster must keep being updated, that is easy enough (sorcs get to swap and wizards are able to have pretty much every spell out there, especially with being able to use other wizards spellbooks easily).I keep looking at the summon list. There is some fun stuff up there <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> d3 fiendish tyranos.. now that would put a damper on almost anyones day! It is very unfortunate that the only feat that I know of from an easy source to improve summonings is a 2nd tier feat with the first feat being basically worthless. Would be interesting. Add on an extra option for the construct, add on +4 str and +4 con. Really though, for being such a rough feat to get, should be +4 enhancmenet str/dex/con.Anyway, I like astral construct and I like summonings. Astral construct cut out a lot of the options in order to put a bit more beef in. It also cut it down to a single power. I feel that they cut it down to a single power to justify it loseing a lot of the versitility and the inability to summon extra of lessers (which is, on occasion, and incredibly good option.. mmm.. multiple fiendish tyranos).They cut it down to one because they cut out a lot of options. Very difficult to add up 'spell equivalency' but I think it is misleading. It is still a single slot, it has lost a lot of versitility elsewhere.Anyway though, out of here for now, have a good one <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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